Enlightened Gods?


No, I meant objectivity/ontology is conjecture according to the dhamma, not denied, but also not confirmed according to the Kaccayanagotta sutta. We can let go and that’s a good-enough response to these beings. They can be said to be real as 1) the Buddha says so 2) his Arahants say so and experiences them in the same manner 3) people remember past lives as devas, and linked to good and bad karma. For this list to be of value it takes some trust or faith. The bodisatva himself was a deva before being born as Siddhartha.


I don’t quite understand I’m afraid. So if I believe in them (based on the EBT), then they exist?


I’m not going to do a flying-spaghetti monster trick! If you say consciousness is more than an emergent property of the physical world then devas are situations where consciousness is conjoined with bodies made of more subtle matter. You might have faith in science when they report back on neutrinos flying through matter in a ghost-like manner - and use it as a reason for their salaries (reasonably, I assume). I can have faith in the report the Buddha made, including his claims to have gotten rid of craving, aversion and delusion so I am assuming he didn’t just say it with a negative motivation. I can’t provide evidence for devas but I think the Buddha doesn’t make such serious claims lightly.


I still don’t understand what you mean :frowning: In the suttas Sakka and Sahampatti appear just as real as Ananda and Kassapa. You seem to have a more complex understanding of them - but is your view based on the suttas - and if so, from where - or is it your interpretation?