Existence after Death, Nihilism, and Anattā

So, the arahant takes everything
as dukkha without taking them
as me and mine ?

If the mind of an arahant no
more defilements , deluded ,
then , surely constantly there
is no sense of self or being .
But , then why does the
mind of an arahant will regards
Physical pains as suffering and
Still there is this " wanting "
to end his/her lives ?
I mean arahant will not regards
the body as me and mine ?!

It is like whether if it is a
tree being chopped down
or a stone being smashes
into pieces , isn’t that like
nothing happens to anyone !?

Best wishes

Tilakkhana is only the tool. It is not the end result.
If tilakkhana brings suffering, it is because it is straining at the attachment to experiences.
When the attachment (and other defilements, including ignorance) is no more, we can let the world just be.
That which causes emotional suffering will be no more.
The mind will be one of peace and compassion, appropriate to the situation (ie- appropriately reactive , not non-reactive).
They will feel physical pain, but not be distraught.
They will probably not worry about how long they live, how well they are living etc. which is why they will live well! Those arahanths without the ability to see rebirths wont worry about rebirth.
They will know birth is ended because they can stop the flow of existence (bhava) in this life, in deep meditation, especially for those who have attained immaterial jhanas (‘released both-ways’).

Tilakkhana is the insight that every moment is impermanent, therefore unsatisfactory. However this statement is mere logic. The actual insight which is gained by insight meditation -vipassana- is that every moment is impermanent and therefore suffering, especially when it reached repulsion, and dispassion stages… There is no other tool efficient enough to counteract our attachment to existence. Like a surgeon’s scalpel once the job is done it is put away. The ‘raft’ is not for carrying.

with metta

That is nothing more than an expression of faith.

I’m just saying that’s what he taught. Whether or not it is true that such a state exists, and what kind of evidence exists for believing such a state exists, are questions we could debate.

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[quote=“DKervick, post:166, topic:5468”]
Whether or not it is true that such a state exists, and what kind of evidence exists for believing such a state exists, are questions we could debate.
[/quote]I’m not actually sure if that is debatable though.[quote]There is, monks, an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned. If, monks there were not that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, you could not know an escape here from the born, become, made, and conditioned. But because there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, therefore you do know an escape from the born, become, made, and conditioned.
[/quote]The Buddha gives a manner of proof or argumentation behind his thesis, namely, that there “is” X, in this quote from Ud 8.3, but the argumentation behind this posited truth requires, it would seem, the abhiññā of a Buddha, who has realized these things for himself, has “confirmed” the “existence” of these escapes, if you will, and who can then argue from that perspective.

Confirming that from the outside is largely impossible, which is why faith is a certain factor in pursuing Dhamma practice, but how can one actually debate the Buddha’s reasoning without it turning into a debate about the enlightenment of the Buddha itself and whether or not Buddhism is just a bunch of folk tales?

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Yes, one can never no for certain whether the suffering-free state exists without experiencing it for oneself. Nevertheless, one can examine externally whether people are genuinely able to achieve deeper states of meditative absorption and relief from anxiety through the practice, and the debate whether extrapolating from that evidence, plus the testimony or purported arahants through history, amounts to a convincing case.

Yes. It is faith in the teaching and faith in the ultimate aim of the teaching.
However, the ultimate aim of the teaching is fiercely debated, even amongst the leading practitioners. See @sujato 's essay on the nature of nibbana and nibbana by Bhikkhu Bodhi.

Ummm …read this sn4.23

That is not convincing. I achieve such states on silent retreat and in my garden and you dismissed them .

What conclusion would you like me to draw?

What states? I thought you were only describing states of relative calm and equanimity while enjoying the beauty If the garden.

Well, the first thing that has been established is that it all requires faith.

Faith in the teaching, faith in the achievements of the Buddha and faith in the achievements of the arahants. The triple refuge no less.

Secondly, there is no real agreement on the nature of nibbana-here-and-now. And no real agreement on the nature of pari-nibbana.

Finally, I have no idea what to make of sn4.23, apart from finding it very disturbing.

There is some disagreement on the positive qualities of the nature of nibbana here and now, but don’t think there is any disagreement that it is supposed to entail the complete end of suffering.

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There is plenty of disagreement there as well. Many argue that it is pari-nibbana that is the complete end of suffering and not nibbana-here-and-now.
But either way, it still comes down to faith. Faith that the buddha achieved the complete end of suffering.

Well from a practical point of view, it doesn’t make much difference to me. As long as the practice continues to lead to less and less suffering, it is worth doing, whether or not there is a complete end of suffering at the end of the road.

Having no faith in something that words can’t accurately described is one thing. Continuing to suffer when it can be worked on, is another.

With metta

What practice is that exactly? You have already said that you don’t meditate and you seem to be saying that you are in a constant state of anxiety regarding death and decay (your words not mine). So what practice are you referring to?

There’s a simile from DN 23 that touches on this:

‘Here it is, Master Kassapa. I see Wanderers and Brahmins moral and of virtuous dispositions, fond of life, averse from dying, fond of happiness, shrinking from sorrow. Then I think, Master Kassapa—“If these good Wanderers and Brahmins were to know this—‘When once we are dead we shall be better off’—then these good men would take poison, or stab themselves, or put an end to themselves by hanging, or throw themselves from precipices. And it is because they do not know that, once dead, they will be better off, that they are fond of life, averse from dying, fond of happiness, disinclined for sorrow. This, Master Kassapa, is for me evidence that there is no other world, no beings reborn otherwise than of parents, no fruit and no result of deeds well and ill-done.’

‘Well then, Prince, I will make you a simile, for by way of a simile some wise men discern the meaning of what is spoken. Once upon a time, Prince, there was a brahmin who had two wives. By one he had a son, ten or twelve years of age; the other was pregnant and near her time. Then the brahmin died. Now the boy said to his mother’s co-wife—“Whatever treasure there is, lady, or grain, or silver, or gold, all that is mine.
There is nothing here for you whatever; make over to me, lady, the heritage of my father!” Then the brahminee made answer to him—“Wait, my lad, till my child is born. If ’twill be a boy, one portion shall be his; if a girl, she shall wait on you.”

‘But the boy reiterated his claim again and yet again. Then the brahminee, taking a sword, entered an inner room and ripped up her belly, saying—“If I can only find out whether ’tis a boy or a girl.” Thus did she destroy both her own life and her unborn infant, and her wealth also, through the foolish and thoughtless way in which, seeking a heritage, she met with ruin and disaster. Even so you, Prince, foolish and thoughtless that you are, will meet with ruin and disaster by seeking without wisdom for another world.
Moral and virtuous Wanderers and Brahmins do not force maturity on that which is unripe; they, being wise, wait for that maturity. The virtuous have need of their life. In proportion to the length of time such men abide here, is the abundant merit that they produce and accomplish for the welfare of many, for the happiness of many, out of compassion for the world, for the advantage, the welfare, the happiness of gods and men. Let this then be a proof to you, Prince, that there is another world, that there is rebirth other than of parentage, that there is fruit and result of deeds well and ill-done.’

To me it seems what Godhika did is an exception, and not a valid exception for ordinary persons.

Also, the parallel (SA-2.30) seems to show that Godhika wasn’t an ordinary person:

At that time, there was a monk called Godhika who lived alone in a cave on Isigili mountain, at the Black Rock. Living in the wilderness, he made diligent efforts, and through his tenacity cut through the view of self and attained temporary liberation, having experienced all stages of jhāna meditation. Then he regressed and lost the experience of liberation. This happened a second time, a third time … altogether six times.

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I don’t know where you got these impressions. I meditate every day, at least once, usually more. And I am by no means in a constant state of anxiety about death. Since I intensified my meditation practice about four years ago, psychological suffering of all forms have diminished. That’s why I continue with it, and continue the efforts to deepen it.

I read the suttas too, usually daily, and much secondary literature about them. But my feeling is that meditation and living the life of restraint recommended by the Buddha are much more important than the reading and intellectual proliferation.

My meditation practice includes reflections on the impermanence of the body and mind and other kinds of contemplation of aging and death. They are very effective, in my view . My observation is that all human beings have an inherent drive to preserve themselves, which goes along with an instinctive fear of of death, a fear which is intensified by an instinctive aversion to the contemplation of death. By contemplating aging and death directly, one is able to penetrate to the source of these fears, and release them.

One has to be careful as this
type of Contemplations
(on death) may lead to strong
Repulsion towards life itself .

But your own words, which apply to yourself are as follows:

Those words describe your own state of mind.

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