I am just reading my way through the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta and in chapter „Building up Pāṭaligāma“ stumbled upon the following:
„Here, Ānanda, I saw with my Divine-eye, which is purified, and surpasses that of normal men, that a great many Divinities, thousands upon thousands, were taking possession of grounds at Pāṭaligāma.
In that place where the great Divinities … the middling Divinities … the lower Divinities took possession of grounds, there the powerful/middling/lower rulers etc.“
I am sorry to say that I am not sure how to interpret the matter with the various Divinities taking possessions of grounds and what does the Buddha want to tell us here?
Pataligama was to become the great imperial capital of the Mauryan dynasty Pataliputra. This part of the story is showing that the Buddha was aware that the humble village had a great future in store for it by perceiving the arrival of spirits who were taking up homes there. This is a common animistic belief, that places are inhabited by spirits. It would have been a commonplace idea for early Buddhists, but that so many powerful spirits arriving foreshadowed the political power that Pataliputra would become.
I don’t think it’s an issue of interpretation or that the Buddha is trying to tell us anything. He’s just reporting on the situation. This sutta has lots of narrative elements to it. So these things can be expected.
Earth-bound devas are a thing in the texts and the commentaries. They seem to be the lowest class of divinities, but powerful none the less.
I think he tell us that the place for a new city was well chosen. It looks like confirmation of idea that certain places have a good energy, so to speak, and it is good to live in such area.
So, then, it’s presumably of a later stratum: an interpolation of authors who’d already witnessed the rise of the Mauryan dynasty and retroactively fitted the discourse with this episode.
Not knowing much about the ancient history of South Asia, I wonder what that says about the historical context of the seven rules of the Licchavis. (It was the Licchavis, wasn’t it?)
I tend to think it’s anachronistic. I mean, it’s like a story set in the time before Rome became a powerful city predicting that it would become one. Pataliputra remained the imperial seat in India for centuries. During the Mauryan empire, it’s thought to have been one of the largest cities in the world based on descriptions recorded in Greek sources.
Historians that I’ve been reading assume that there really was a warmonger king who took power in Magadha at the end of the Buddha’s life and began conquering the surrounding lands. And the customs of the Vajji tribes (the Licchavis were one of those tribes) that are listed in the Parinirvana Sutra sound like typical tribal society. So, I think it’s very credible as events taking place at the end of the Buddha’s life.
Well, you are right that just being skeptical and/or cynical about history isn’t a reason by itself. There are different versions of the story that don’t depict the Buddha making a prediction the way DN 16 does.
DA 2 seems to assume Pataliputra was already a great city at the time of the Buddha. The Buddha says that it is a great city while the cities around it were in decline.
In another version I’ve been translating, the one in the Mulasarvastivada Vinaya, the Buddha observes that Pataliputra had superior people and merchants who traveled long distances who made the city attractive to the gods.
There are three other versions of the sutra, but it’s getting late here in Los Angeles. I can look at them in the morning. But the basic point is that what exactly the Buddha said isn’t always clear, though it can certainly be very clear if we only read one version.
I could just as easily ask why it is so easy to believe the same thing, but I don’t know how far recourse to “belief” would get us in either case. So, let’s start with empirical investigation, which is a standard I think we can all defer to (including, I think, the sammāsambuddhā):
Query: Where in canonical scripture does it say that predictions of the future falls under the ken of a sammāsambuddha?
If no one minds, I want to include the condition that we not include predictions of awakening but restrict ourselves to predictions of mundane or secular events.
Actually the point that I wonder most about is that the divinities who were taking possessions of the grounds were not only of an higher order, but also of a middling and even a lower one. So even if Pāṭaligāma was to be or is already a powerful city, why were there also divinities of a lower order? Or perhaps I am reading too much into this short paragraph, and it is just meant to be a narrative.
Personally, I think yes, you are looking for something that isn’t there. But who knows!
The sutta that comes to mind if I really squint is Iti 78 on like elements coming together. You can find a few more in the CIPS if you go to association > with similar people/like elements. But honestly it’s a stretch.
Okay, yes, I think the divinities-problem is cleared for me here. I’ll go on with my study of the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta - who knows what else I will find there that seems incomprehensible.
Thank you!
It need not be so complex at all. It could be simply explained as Bhoomi Puja. This is a ‘ground breaking’ ceremony where the land is symbolically dedicated to a deity who is invited to take possession of the land prior to the steps of clearing and construction.
The Neev Pujan (foundation ritual) involves the ritual placement of sacred bhumi poojan items inside the foundation to spiritually prepare the land before construction begins. Each item used in Bhumi Poojan Vidhi carries a specific Vastu and spiritual purpose—to honor deities, purify the soil, balance the Panch Tatvas (five elements), and invite long-term prosperity, protection, and harmony for the residents.
It takes 50+ years build a great city such as Dubai from scratch in modern times. It would have taken much more time 2500 years ago. But the signs of economic activity would be obvious.
Just to clarify the cultural context - each Family (Clan) traditionally has its own Kul devata - a divinity that watches over the household. The power of the Kul devata and the power of the Family (in matters of state and trade) go hand in hand. There are hundreds of kul devatas, ranging from higher deities such as Shiva who are famous and powerful to lesser deities who no one knows outside the immediate village.
Because it takes all kinds of people to build a city- not just the rich and powerful!
Not sure what is your problem, but since even some humans can recognise such “places of power”, why lower devas should not have such ability. But perhaps your problem lies somewhere else…
