Gender dysphoria and Karma

[Erika_ODonnell]

@Rosie

And finally the irony that those of us who have been through it have no path to becoming an Arahat.

What do you mean here?

[Khemarato.bhikkhu]

@JimInBC

The goal should be for Buddhism and its practitioners to listen and understand the lived experiences of trans and non-binary people, and to use that understanding to make sure Buddhist spaces are safe, welcoming, and supportive spaces for the full range of gender identities and gender experiences that exist in the world.

Hear hear!

@Erika_ODonnell

Maybe trans and non-binary people…

You’re lumping together two rather different experiences of gender here. Trans people definitely have gender: it’s just not the one people around them assumed at first. And even for non-binary folk, I don’t find this hypothesis very convincing for a couple reasons: First, the number of people being reborn from these high realms is (said to be) vanishingly small. Second, from my conversations with non-binary folk, my sense is that (largely) they’re (we’re) rejecting the problematic (socio-cultural) baggage “around” gender roles. Like: it is genuinely a bizarre notion that just because I was born with a penis I should therefore e.g. not like the color pink. Like, why not‽ Don’t tell me what I can and can’t do! I see your gender roles and I reject them. (That’s my attitude at least )

[Erika_ODonnell]

@Khemarato.bhikkhu

First, the number of people being reborn from these high realms is (said to be) vanishingly small.

Just to clarify, my main intention was to provide a positive karmic explanation for the existence of gender-nonconforming people

Moreover, the Buddha said that the beings who die in the heaven realms and get reborn as humans are few. It seems that around 5% to 0.1% of the population are trans and/or non-binary, so it could fit pretty good (depending on how you interpret the Buddha when he says ‘few’, how you measure gender identity, etc.).

On the other hand, for human births it’s basically 50/50 – a coin toss – whether you get assigned male or female at birth. Flipping coins, it’s not that surprising to get three or four heads in a row. In other words, many people alive today would have been the same gender at least a few lifetimes in a row. If it is the case that many same-assigned lifetimes is why some people have gender dysphoria, I think more people would have gender dysphoria.

(but to be fair, many cis people have gender dysphoria. E.g. the vast majority of plastic surgery is for cis people who wish to better conform to gender ideals. Breast and genital surgery is mostly for cis women, testosterone is a controlled substance because cis men use it to get buff and win at sports, etc.).

@Khemarato.bhikkhu

You’re lumping together two rather different experiences of gender here. Trans people definitely have gender: it’s just not the one people around them assumed at first.

Some trans people have a strong connection to their gender, some don’t the terminology is pretty fuzzy AFAIK.

@Khemarato.bhikkhu

Second, from my conversations with non-binary folk, my sense is that (largely) they’re (we’re) rejecting the problematic (socio-cultural) baggage “around” gender roles. Like: it is genuinely a bizarre notion that just because I was born with a penis I should therefore e.g. not like the color pink. Like, why not‽ Don’t tell me what I can and can’t do! I see your gender roles and I reject them. (That’s my attitude at least )

Agreed. But I think there’s more to it also. For example, in Norway, a man with gynecomastia (man boobs) can get a referral from his doctor and have his breasts removed on the government dime.

A non-binary transmasculine person can’t. The government health service simply doesn’t recognize that non-binary people need gender affirming care.

So for example, part of being non-binary in Norway is not only rejecting gender role baggage, but also things like having to lie to the national health service that you have a binary gender identity to get gender affirming care.

[Rosie]

Wow. I am overcome with gratitude for this well articulated expression of support for me and my community. I could not have said this better, and it has great resonance coming from the heart of another.
Sadu!

[Rosie]

I meant that, to my limited knowledge base, there are no Trans-Arahats.
Tell me if I am wrong.

[Erika_ODonnell]

Are there any cis arahats?

Do arahants even have a gender identity? If someone doesn’t identify with neither the body nor the mind, I don’t see how they could have a gender beyond what others project onto them

But it would make sense to me that, over the last 2500 years, people who we would today call trans and/or non-binary would have had a greater probability to be drawn towards renunciation.

It seems logical to me that people who sense they aren’t going to be so happy in worldly life (particularly with getting married and having kids) might be pushed towards renunciation.

So, I think there could potentially be many arahats throughout history that – before they became enlightened – we would today call their experience ‘being trans’.

Also, I find hard to explain this part of the Vinaya if there weren’t any trans monastics:

At one time the characteristics of a woman appeared on a monk. They informed the Master. He said: “Monks, I allow that very discipleship, that very ordination, those years as a monk, to be transferred to the nuns. The monks’ offenses that are in common with the nuns are to be dealt with in the presence of the nuns. For the monks’ offenses that are not in common with the nuns, there’s no offense.”

At one time the characteristics of a man appeared on a nun. They informed the Master. He said: “Monks, I allow that very discipleship, that very ordination, those years as a nun, to be transferred to the monks. The nuns’ offenses that are in common with the monks are to be dealt with in the presence of the monks. For the nuns’ offenses that are not in common with the monks, there’s no offense.”

I mean, IMO, this passage is hard to understand as anything other than the Buddha going out of his way to say that trans monastics are valid

[trevor]

I agree wholeheartedly.