The following sutta contains the words 'fame’ and ‘heaven’ as rewards for the layperson’s support of the sangha (‘having done excellent deeds’). These '‘rewards’ seem to be in contrast of the Buddha’s teachings elsewhere (eg the eight wordly conditions). I feel a conflict here….any thougths?
Numbered Discourses 4.60
6. Overflowing Merit
Lay Practice
Then the householder Anāthapiṇḍika went up to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. The Buddha said to hi m:
“Householder, when a noble disciple does four things they are practicing appropriately for a layperson, which brings fame and leads to heaven.What four?It’s when a noble disciple serves the mendicant Saṅgha with robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.When a noble disciple does these four things they are practicing appropriately for a layperson, which brings fame and leads to heav en. SuttaCentral
I agree. A desire for fame seems to be a desire, ultimately, to reinforce, expand, and advertise a sense of a separate self in one’s own and, especially, in others’ eyes. Not to mention there is total lack of regard for the potential positive inner transformation of lay practitioners; a potential for transformation that basically characterises Buddhism. It is about only supporting the transformation of others. This passage seems anti-Buddhist.
This is an important issue that I think causes a lot of consternation.
The Buddha criticized bad things and praised good things. He never criticized good things happening to people for doing good actions. That’s all that is happening in AN4.60, namely encouraging good actions.
It’s quite uncommon that the Buddha will praise good actions, point out the good results, and then at the same time criticize people who get attached to those good results. If his point is to encourage good action, it would be counter productive to criticize the good results he is praising. It would lead people to have doubts about doing the good action.
The teaching about the eight worldly conditions are warning against getting attached to both the good and bad that inevitably happens for everyone.
The Buddha taught many people, all at differing levels of spiritual development. He was a master at tailoring his teachings for the current audience he was teaching. He identified where they were in their spiritual journey and taught them there. What motivates a non-returner practicing for arahantship is different from what motivates a worldling practicing for stream-entry. What motivates a worlding practicing for stream-entry is different from what motivates someone with only a spark of interest in spirituality. A lot of these kinds of conflicts can be resolved by identifying who the Buddha was teaching—the more suttas you read, the more you can get a sense of this.
The DPD dictionary entry for the word “fame” in that sutta has: fame; reputation; renown; honour; glory; prestige. I think the sense here is being well-regarded by others, having a reputation for being a good person. It’s not fame in the modern sense of being a celebrity.
The heavens are a good rebirth. Stream-enterers have at most seven more rebirths in human and heavenly realms. Non-returners are reborn into the highest heavens of form one last time to complete their paths. One can still practice the Dhamma in these places.
When we have questions like this, sometimes it’s helpful to ask what the alternative would be.
If we do good things, we might get attached to the results or have wrong motivations. So is the alternative being proposed to not do good deeds? Clearly that’s worse. We work with where we’re at.
In particular for your question, I’d recommend the Dānamahapphala Sutta (AN 7.52). It explains how people can give for different motives, from more selfish to more refined. Each is good, but something being good doesn’t mean it can’t become better. But we have to be motivated to start first of all, which is why the Buddha teaches according to the audience.
Great question! Surely it is about intention? Monks and Lay persons also wish to attain stream entry, well I would put my hand up for that anyway. But do I practice with that intention or is it a result of my practice? Do I give alms,robes,lodgings and medicine with the intention of fame and heaven or is it a consequence of those actions? Buddha points out many times , in many sutta’, the positive outcomes of ones actions, but, I believe it comes down to intention, desire.
I’m not so knowledgeable as to point to any particular sutta but my reading today was MN8 ,self effacement , and amongst many things “thought” is mentioned as important in the practice of “self effacement”
What do we appreciate, honour, venerate? What we reap will depend on that greatly, i believe.
I believe the idea of the sutta is that when we honour and support Truthseekers, we also show we value the Truth ourselves. I think this a quality that comes with great fruits.
The fame one would reap i think is not as much a wordly fame but more like the respect, the appreciation that one gets when one is honest, sincere, upright, appreciating a truthful living. I still feel many people appreciate this, although the world darkens by the day.
So, I do not believe this fame is really about those 8 wordly conditions which is more a matter of Self or Ego -glorification instead of honoring Truth. Honoring Truth one cannot honour ego-glorification.
Also a Buddha still has a need to venerate and honour something. He would have said that it is painful to live without (from the translation of Bodhi):
"Bhikkhus, on one occasion I was dwelling at Uruvela, by the goatherds’ banyan tree on the bank of the Neranjara River, just after I had attained full enlightenment. Then, while I was alone in seclusion, a course of thought arose in my mind thus: It is painful to dwell without reverence and deference. Now what ascetic or brahmin can I honor, respect, and dwell in dependence on?’ (AN4.21)
The end of sutta says:
"It occurred to me: 'Let me then honor, respect, and dwell in dependence, only on this Dhamma to which I have become fully enlightened”.
But we have to be motivated to start first of all, which is why the Buddha teaches according to the audience.