Much thanks for the reflection Matt.
Agreed! But that was never in question. The trouble at hand is that those of us with a defiled mind have no way of recognising who has made the breakthrough, and those is earnestly committed to doing so if they haven’t yet. The matter (fundamentally anchored to the initially referenced sutta) doesn’t concern whether or not it is worth giving to ‘worthy’ ones (that is assumed), but rather how a person can know they they are giving to such an individual when 1) they are perpetually drunk on their own mental disturbances and 2) the are those who wear robes and practice in a bad way (recognised as existing in the Buddha’s time, and I don’t think the picture has got any better since).
Right up to the bracketed note, again we’re in full agreement. However, once the bracketed caveat is introduced the I think its power for cultivating wholesome mental qualities can be significantly diminished and even tip over to being a negative force if doubts start to brew over the virtue of the recipient (this point is entirely mitigated if we say what we are giving to is the principle of virtue as merely represented by the robe-wearer and the actual virtue of the recipient is the recipient’s own concern).
I don’t believe there’s any conflict at all between these two things, but rather that they are entirely complementary. So far as I recall from the relevant suttas I’ve come across (in fact, I think it’s also in the one you linked above) the highest intention for giving is to brighten the mind. The Kd8 text clearly links giving to the awakened ones and gladdening the mind.
Again, there’s really at the heart of the question, if the Buddha is saying it’s about the ideal of practice, wonderful, the issue is completely resolved. But, as I read it, it kinda looks like he’s saying it is the actual, specific people who have awoken, or are on the straight and narrow towards awakening through which the mental benefits come about. It is in this respect that room for doubt arises as, well… who knows about this person or that?
That’s an image I’m not going to be able to get out of my mind anytime soon. I’m not 100% that’s the best way to brighten my mind. Although… it is very shiny. Maybe it’ll work.
Quite so. Very much! However, in no way to negate the point, this inquiry has come out of trying to understand and make relevant a teaching given by the canonical Buddha. It is the text itself (and there are others) that highlight the legitimacy of the question of how to know (to have trust, to have stable grounds from which gladness can spring) that one is giving to (and relatedly, taking instruction from) one who is worthy.
By my thus far understanding of the texts, I’d say, yes - see the post above re the Kd8 text where a similar conclusion is drawn.