SuttaCentral
I’m glad the discourse has been at a suitable level for you.
Perhaps another inquiry could be how Goenka training differs from that of the Theravadin tradition, which I imagine is what you have been trained in and follow in Thailand.
Would you say there is a form of ‘EBT Buddhism’ as distinct from Theravada in Thailand?
Thai Forest encompasses a huge variety of practices, some of which fit EBT, Classical Theravāda, both, or neither…
Imagine Ajaan Geoff, Ajaan Maha Boowa, and Ajahn Buddhadasa all in one room together. They would agree on many points, while having vastly different ways of explaining meditation practice.. Multiply that diversity by thousands of Thai Forest bhikkhus giving Dhamma talks!
Some Thai Forest bhikkhus practice Mahasi, Goenka, or Pa-Auk. Others use “canonical approaches” to meditation. Quite a few of them endeavor to follow the Teacher they admire most, usually a Thai “Kruba Ajaan.”
In short, I would describe the Thai Forest approach as strict Vinaya and seclusion in natural settings, plus “whatever works” for the realization of Nibbana. Someone like @Khemarato probably has a clearer sense of the scope of what constitutes "Theravada in Thailand.”
New thread?
Perhaps another inquiry could be how Goenka training has similarities with that of the Theravadin tradition. Such conversation can be beneficial as well.
I’ll share my contribution having read some Thai Ajahn’s dhamma books.
From Ven. Ajahn Maha Boowa’s book titled Arahattamagga Arahattaphala:
(Note: Of course the instructions are not ditto same as to pass the attention through the body from top to bottom. Even Goenka says the order from head to feet is not important, important is to get to a stage where we can be aware of entire mass of body at the subtlest level and see its arising and passing.)
Page 25
Investigate painful feelings arising in the body so as to see them clearly for what they are. The body itself is merely a physical form, the physical reality you have known since birth. But when you believe that you are your body, and your body hurts, then you are in pain.
Page 26
These two khandhas—body and feeling—are more prominent than the khandhas of memory, thought and consciousness, which, because they vanish as soon as they arise, are far more difficult to see. Feelings, on the other hand, remain briefly before they vanish. This causes them to standout, making them easier to isolate during meditation. Focus directly on painful feelings when they arise and strive to understand their true nature
Page 27
THE LORD BUDDHA TAUGHT US to investigate with the aim of seeing all pain as simply a phenomenon that arises, remains briefly and then vanishes. Don’t become entangled in it. Don’t view the pain in personal terms, as an inseparable part of who you are, for that runs counter to pain’s true nature. It also undermines the techniques used to investigate pain, preventing wisdom from knowing the reality of feelings. Don’t create a problem for yourself where none exists. See the truth as it arises in each moment of pain, observing as it remains briefly and vanishes.
Page 28
Painful feelings depend on the body as their physical basis. Without the body they could not occur. But they have no physical reality of their own. Sensations that arise in conjunction with the body are interpreted in such a way that they become indistinguishable from the area of the body that is affected.
Page 31
This is the path for those who are practicing meditation so as to penetrate to the truth of the five khandhas, using painful feeling as the primary focus.
Page 32
NO MATTER HOW DEEP OR CONTINUOUS, samãdhi is not an end in itself. Samãdhi does not bring about an end to all suffering. But samãdhi does constitute an ideal platform from which to launch an all out assault on the kilesas that cause all suffering. The profound calm and concentration generated by samãdhi form an excellent basis for the development of wisdom.
A very important part:
Page 33
The practice of wisdom begins with the human body, the grossest and most visible component of our personal identity.
The object is to penetrate the reality of its true nature. Is our body what we’ve always assumed it to be—an integral and desirable part of who we really are? To test this assumption we must thoroughly investigate the body by mentally deconstructing it into its constituent parts, section by section, piece by piece. We must research the truth about the body with which we are so familiar by viewing it from different angles.
Page 35
Body contemplation should occupy every breath, every thought, every movement until the mind becomes thoroughly saturated with it. Nothing short of total commitment will bring genuine and direct insight into the truth. When body contemplation is practiced with single-minded intensity, each successive body part becomes a kind of fuel feeding the fires of mindfulness and wisdom. Mindfulness and wisdom then become a conflagration consuming the human body section by section, part by part, as they examine and investigate the truth with a burning intensity. This is what is meant by tapadhamma
Page 39
You must investigate repeatedly, training the mind until you become highly proficient at using wisdom. Avoid any form of speculation or conjecture. Don’t allow thoughts of what you should be doing or what the results might mean to encroach upon the investigation. Just concentrate on the truth of what wisdom reveals and let the truth speak for itself. Wisdom will know the correct path to follow and will understand clearly the truths that it uncovers. And when wisdom is fully convinced of the truth of any aspect of the body, it will naturally release its attachment to that aspect.
Page 41
When body contemplation reaches the stage where reason and result become fully integrated with wisdom, one becomes completely absorbed in these investigations both day and night. It’s truly extraordinary. Wisdom moves through the body with such speed and agility, and displays such ingenuity in its contemplative techniques, that it seems to spin relentlessly in and out and around every part, every aspect of the body, delving into each nook and cranny to discover the truth.
Page 46
This part of the investigation is complex and somewhat chaotic with images of the body arising and vanishing at a furious pace.
Page 47
Finally realizing that all form is intrinsically empty—empty of personality, empty of distinctive qualities such as beauty and ugliness—the meditator sees the immense harm caused by kãmarãga.
…
With kãmarãga quenched, Nibbãna appears imminent and close at hand.
From Ven. Ajahn Dtun’s biography:
Page 180
by contemplating the four primary elements that constitute the physical body. The contemplation must be performed again and again, probing deeper than in the previous stage, until the truth behind the body is seen with greater clarity. As a result the mind will let go of the second of the three portions of attachment towards the body. The deluded perception as to the true nature of the body is further diminished. Greed and displeasure will, as such, be further reduced in force. The mind has now made the transition from sotāpanna to sakadāgāmī – the once returner.
From Ven. Ajahn Dtun’s book The Sacred Equation:
Page 82
"From my own personal experience I don’t believe anybody who says that it is possible to attain to the Dhamma without having to contemplate the body. Nor do I believe the claims to attainment of anyone who has not practised body contemplation"
From Ven. Ajahn Dtun’s book This is The Path:
Page 14
“Those who say body contemplation is a narrow path, are themselves trapped in narrow thinking. In truth, body contemplation is very broad and leads to great freedom due to true insight. From my experience and from seeing the results of others in their practice, to realize Dhamma, to attain at least sotāpanna, is impossible without thoroughly and deeply uprooting the identification with the body. Even the likes of Luang Pu Tate and Luang Ta Mahā Boowa, monks with enormous pāramī and refined awareness throughout the day, had to go back and contemplate the body before they realized the Dhamma. It is not enough to do it just a few times either. The great Forest teachers had to contemplate over and over”
From Ven. Ajahn Anan’s book Sotapattimagga:
Page 21
…When we really pull it apart and analyse it as the earth element, we find that it’s just a huge mass of naturally existing elements that have fused together. If we break it down even further, we see that they are just tiny molecules and elements. If we blow them apart we find they are just energy. But in the end they can be separated out until they aren’t even there. Only a mass with no real abiding essence, a fusion of energy that eventually dissipates.
…
Investigating the body as elements is one method we can use, dividing the body into four parts. Like someone cutting up a cow into four parts. Get in there and investigate every part, bit by bit.
Page 42
…But Luang Pu Chah (AJAHN CHAH) knew that this was just delusion talking. He said to go back and keep investigating the body over and over. This really stuck in my mind. Keep investigating the body, right here in this physical mass of sankhāras. Still I thought, “Hmm, why does Luang Pu Chah keep having me investigate this body when my mind is so calm?
Page 44
…In and out, back and forth, round and round. Split, divide and analyse them from the angle that they are just elements. Here’s the earth,
here’s the water, here’s the fire, here’s the air. Investigate down inwards…what’s in this body? Poke and prod at it right here. Pick it up and analyse one part.
Page 45
Investigate right at earth, water, fire and air, right here, this mass of four elements. Over and over, in and out, right down to the finest details, and then build them up again in fine detail. Do this for clear seeing and understanding. This is wisdom that comes about through
investigation.
Page 60
…we need to patiently keep at it following the principles of practice laid out by our Elders such as Luang Pu Mun and Luang Pu Chah. These great monks and many others traveled on the path that leads all the way to arahantship. This path is based on making the mind peaceful, then moving into investigation within the framework of the body; or else using the investigation of the body to make the mind peaceful.
Thank you, that was very interesting.
No, nothing. I think it was fine. But then, I have over the years managed to push a number of buttons here so maybe I am not the best to ask.
Forums are a challenge. Much is lost in converting our words into text. It’s easy to take something the wrong way. I think pointing out your intentions as you have been doing helps allot.
I don’t know how many here are familiar with Goenka terminology and practice which is bound to create misunderstanding. Mine is very limited. Maybe you are the perfect person to bring about such a discussion.
I think this sense of impermanence (Goenka) is what Ajahn Brahm refers to as The Beautiful Breath (Than. Geoff. Breath Energy) when experienced in the presence of tranquility. Shinzen Young has talked about this though he calls it Flow vs impermanence – something like that.
Another example (as I recall) is that Goenka describes arising pain during meditation as ‘burning off karma’ something like that. Where as Than. Geoff. refers to it as ‘breaking up energy blockages’. Different terminology but I think the same experience.
Father Thomas Keating describes a process he calls The Divine Therapy where when the mind is still, past trauma, etc. begin to arise in meditation and are released. Here is a short video where he explains this.
I had a Vipassana teacher (former Goenka student) that called this ‘Peeling the Onion’.
A human being has so many skins inside, covering the depths of the heart. We know so many things, but we don’t know ourselves! Why, thirty or forty skins or hides, as thick and hard as an ox’s or bear’s, cover the soul. Go into your own ground and learn to know yourself there.
― Meister Eckhart
This is a fruitful line of inquiry, and @Sutava_Putthujana1 has already pointed out many connections and overlapping instructions.
Could we make this a new thread entitled “Goenka Vipassana and Thai Forest instructions”? I’m not sure how to do that, and my computer time is very limited at the monastery.
Thank you all and Mettā!
Are you arguing with your neighbors about whose doctor is better, instead of actually taking the medicine your doctor prescribed?
Goenkaji was deeply reverent towards Sangha and would never have insulted a monk. 
I know that SNGonenka taught the Satipathanna and Anapanasati Sutta as a confirmation of what is experienced on the path and not as a training manual, which I think is different to what others follow and the patthana is of upmost importance in explaining what and why the students are in the first stage’s of experiencing dukkha which is reflected in the discourses, I think unless the traditional has a line of teachers who understood the patthana it’s likely to be ignored, example if you were to keep you attention only on a certain part of the body that’s the only part of the body you will experience pain, that’s interesting I think I don’t know how to explain it other than the technique is doing what it’s supposed to do and it’s up to me to apply it properly
The Goenka Vipassana (GV) practice of the bodyscan is similar to Ajhan Lee’s teaching on the focus of jhana as being the breath and the whole body. GV does not combine awareness of breath with the bodyscan so that is a difference. In addition, the GV conception of jhana is the Buddhaghosa conception of focusing on a meditation sign in which one is not aware of one’s body. Thus GV is presented as a dry insight practice without jhana. But GV does speak of a state called bhanga where one’s body is experienced as an energy field of vibration. It would be interesting to compare that with how Ajhan Lee describes the experience of jhana.
Another difference is that teachers like Thanissaro Bhikkhu and Ajhan Pasano teach the 16 exercises whereas GV does not teach the 16 exercises.
Another similarity is that GV focuses on the 12 links as its core theory which Thanissaro has also focused on as a core theory of early Buddhism.
I have so much to say on this topic, and so little time to engage with the Internet. 
As a starter, I would point out that Goenkaji and Sayagyi U Ba Khin deeply admired Webu Sayadaw, the Burmese forest monk. When I read his discourses (translated by Roger Bischoff), they sound exactly like a Thai Forest Ajaan!
Read for yourself, and then perhaps read Ajaan Lee (Dhammadharo) or Ajaan Dune (Atulo) afterwards to note similarities in tone, selivery, and method:
Webu Sayadaw’s preferred method of practice was Ānāpānasati, and he repeatedly encouraged his disciples to give it their full effort. He also encouraged Sayagyi U Ba Khin to teach the Vipassana technique he learned from Sayathetgyi, who learned it from Ledi Sayadaw.