Just wanted to make a quick post about deva realms. Some of the explanations for their fast movement speed and ability to become invisible seem to fit very nicely with an idea of a higher dimensional space realm. Here’s a game that shows how 1 higher dimension looks like for those watching lower dimensional images of the higher reality:
I figured this would be more difficult to explain 2.5k years ago than we can now.
Would this somehow explain how one day & night in these realms are lasting for loooong years (AN 3.70) while their location is still possibly within* our solar system(AN 3.80)?
‘*’ In the sutta it says just that the number of higher realms is = to the number of Suns. Me kinda presumes that they’re oriented in relation because the 4 Great Kings wander around the world every new & full moon. (AN 3.37)
Is there a sutta that wouldn’t fit this idea of higher dimensional space for the mind?
I don’t see sutta which imply higher Deva realms got more suns.
If anything, the definition of a world system with their own sun, moon, set of devas support the notion of one sun shared by all 6 Deva realms of a solar system.
I wrote the link above comparing what devas could be scientifically speaking before I read the 4 Nikayas. Even now I haven’t read the suttas of the deva mansions.
So likely a lot of subtle details would need to be critically reviewed.
There are 3 realms of existence, 7 planes and 2 dimensions
Note: Buddha mentioned growth, rising is law of nature, when our existence rises from these realms to higher ones you can see what benefits are, sitting here we can’t comprehend them
DN15, SN45
1st plane - kāmabhavo - sensual realm of existence, these are usually Sensual realms are usually lower realms where the 5 senses come to play and most of the world here is created from these 5 sense bases.
yakkh - being a spirit
bhūt - being a creature
manussa - being a human
catuppada – 4-legged animal realm
pakkhi - being a bird
sarīsapā - being a reptile
2nd plane - rūpabhavo - realm of luminous form of existence, Realm of luminous form of existence has mind made energy bodies and free from 5 sense bases, just the mind and phenomenon
devānaṁ - being a god
gandhabba - being a heavenly musician
pajāpatiṁ - being a creator god
arūpabhavo - formless realm of existence, don’t even have parts of name the conditioning, parts or the 5 sense bases
3rd plane unified in body and diverse in perception
brahma - brahma realm, lifespan 1 eon
ābhassare - gods of streaming radiance, 2 eons
4th Plane - unified in body and unified in perception
subhakiṇhe - gods replete with glory, 4 eons
vehapphale - gods of abundant fruit, 4th Jhana, 500 eons
abhibhu - superior beings than vehappahale
2nd dimension - neither perception nor non-perception
5th Plane - totally beyond perceptions of form, infinite space
6th Plane - infinite consciousness
7th Plane - nothingness
Where do enlightened beings go then?
Enlightened ones neither exist in any realms nor not exist as both perspectives here refer to existence and question itself is wrong.
Consider a dark meteor, the enlightened ones clean this meteor from defilements, orient it in certain direction and let is fall, free fall. This creates a brilliant radiance lighting up the sky which can be seen across galaxies, which eventually gets smaller and smaller and light goes stronger and more radiant till eventually it disappears, there is nothing left anymore to burn or exist which can be seen by the eyes, we call it shooting star, perfect example for enlightenment.
So these higher realms are mind made realms you can make anything you want here, your own heaven or anything you like it just has weaker and weaker mind consciousness
Bhante, thank you so much for responding to this post!
Right after reading your higher dimensional being article I wanted to ask about the Double Slit experiment, but it turns out you already wrote about it!
Specifically, I’d like to ask you about the “Delayed ‘Choice’ Quantum Eraser”.
I was talking with my friend about this, and it seems that this experiment shows like a metaphor on how intent impacts the reality before any actual act is carried out.
If the intent is to measure the particle in the future, the screen is instantly losing the interference pattern. If the intent is to delete the information in the future, the pattern arises before the actual deletion of the information.
Would this fit to compare to how kamma can only be made if there’s an intent? If there’s no intent, there’s no kamma made? (AN 6.63) Or how good kamma can be amplified by having a higher intent, even though a gift given is exactly the same, for example. (AN 7.52)
Would this fit to compare to how loving kindness and perception of impermanence are simply intents changing the future at the highest level? (AN 9.20)
Would this fit to compare to how having appropriate attention to what is skillful and letting go, and forgiveness is like an intent to delete inappropriate attention to what happened in the past? (SN 46.51)
Or maybe how the Right View is the cause leading to the ending of all suffering as well?
I don’t want to make this reply too long, I really appreciate that this opportunity to ask this has happened. Thank you, Bhante!
Sorry, for the article, I thought I wrote it well, but the last 2 paragraphs which I just deleted seemed to create a lot of misconception.
There’s a lot of ways to interpret the data to not involve any retrocasuality. See this for example.
If you read the following properly, your quote above cannot stand, doesn’t stand. If what happens now depends on what happens in the future, we can receive messages from the future. Or send messages to the past. Easy time travel!
Note that this cannot be used to send messages back in time, or receive messages from the future because we need information from the second half of the photons to count the coincidence pattern of the signal photon to reveal whether or not it has the interference pattern depending on our delayed-choice on the idler photon. So when the signal photon hits the detectors, all the experimenters could see are random messes, regardless of what decision we make on the idler photon later on. This is true even if we always choose to put in the beam splitter and erase the which-way information.
If this messes with your intuition, recall what does entangled photons do. They only show correlation when you compare measurement results from both sides. If you only have access to one side, you can only see random results. So for the case of if we always erase the information, we still do not immediately see interference pattern, but the detectors 1 and 2 keeps on clicking. Each of them is actually an interference pattern, it’s just overlapping interference pattern, we need to distinguish which detectors did the idler photon clicks in 3 and 4 to separate the signal photon out. If we had done the coincidence count right and group all the signal photons corresponding to idler photon clicking detector 3, that signal photon will only trigger one of the detectors 1 or 2, showing you the interference!
Sensual realm = 6 senses. Includes humans, animals, hungry ghosts, asuras, hells, and the 6 deva realms. Total 11 realms out of the 31 realms.
form realm = (from tradition I heard only got eye, ear, and mind sense, no gender) 16 realms of the Brahma realm. Attained via the form Jhanas. The top 5 realms here are called the pure abodes, reserved for non-returners.
Use the 31 realms as the main references. We start from the bottom up.
No. 1-11: Hell, animals, ghost, asuras are the lower realms, humans, and the 6 deva realms are within the sensual realm. Also, likely to map to the 7 planes of consciousness and 9 abodes of beings thus:
1st plane, 1st abode: There are sentient beings that are diverse in body and diverse in perception, such as human beings, some gods, and some beings in the underworld.
However, by the wordings in the suttas, there could be some exceptions. Those with divine eye can investigate.
No. 12-14, first Jhana Brahma realms correspond to:
2nd Plane, 2nd abode: There are sentient beings that are diverse in body and unified in perception, such as the gods reborn in Brahmā’s Host through the first absorption.
No. 15-17, second Jhana Brahma realms correspond to:
3rd Plane, 3rd abode: There are sentient beings that are unified in body and diverse in perception, such as the gods of streaming radiance.
No. 18-20, third Jhana Brahma realms:
4th Plane, 4th abode: There are sentient beings that are unified in body and unified in perception, such as the gods replete with glory.
No. 22, the Unconscious beings (asaññasatta)
5th Abode: There are sentient beings that are non-percipient and do not experience anything, such as the gods who are non-percipient beings. This is the fifth abode of sentient beings.
No. 28 Infinite Space (akasanañcayatanupaga deva)
6th Abode, 5th Plane: There are sentient beings that have gone totally beyond perceptions of form. With the ending of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, they have been reborn in the dimension of infinite space.
7th Abode, 6th Plane: There are sentient beings that have gone totally beyond the dimension of infinite space. Aware that ‘consciousness is infinite’, they have been reborn in the dimension of infinite consciousness.
No. 30: Nothingness (akiñcaññayatanupaga deva)
8th Abode, 7th Plane: There are sentient beings that have gone totally beyond the dimension of infinite consciousness. Aware that ‘there is nothing at all’, they have been reborn in the dimension of nothingness.
9th Abode: There are sentient beings that have gone totally beyond the dimension of nothingness. They have been reborn in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. This is the ninth abode of sentient beings.
I dunno where @sumants get the 2 dimensions from, I don’t recall it.
The 3 realms are sensual, form, formless. Sensual realms cover 1-11, form covers 12-27, formless are the realms 28-31.
