Hello, I am looking forward to find and understand the suttas explaining hiri and ottappa and their importance at the time of the Buddha and now, separately as well as comparatively. Thank you
3 Likes
It’s a great topic for study.
This essay by Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi draws from the early texts and commentaries.
Whenever I am researching a subject from the suttas I always check index.readingfaithfully.org
After thinking about hiri and ottappa for a few years I found reading the psychology/self help book Healing the Shame that Binds You by John Bradshaw an interesting examination of how healthy and unhealthy shame form and manifest.
14 Likes
Wow. That essay by Bhikkhu Bodhi is fantastic. I recently listened to a talk by Ajahn Brahmali where he touched on ottappa and it really stuck with me. Just a few days ago I was having a conversation about it with a friend. This essay expanded the context and detail which is very illuminating and inspiring. Buddhaghosa’s simile of the iron bar is beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing, Venerable!
Also, I was well read in John Bradshaw over 20 years ago, before I knew about Buddhism, and his work helped me a lot.
6 Likes
Could you please give the link to Aj Brahmali’s talk?
TIA. 
You can skip ahead to the 23:40 mark for the build up and then listen from 24:50 on for the simile of stepping into the street.
Ven. Brahmali’s point is Right View, but I think it’s also related to ottappa, as BB writes: “Ottappa, fear of wrongdoing, has an external orientation. It is the voice of conscience that warns us of the dire consequences of moral transgression: blame and punishment by others, the painful kammic results of evil deeds, the impediment to our desire for liberation from suffering.”
7 Likes
Thank you so much
2 Likes
Venerable Sir,
I am deeply obliged to receive your help. Yes I found the website useful and I am trying to study further. I am interested in writing an essay and found that the concept of Hiri and Ottappa is also subtle like dhamma. Thank you very much. Regards
2 Likes
It was late when I replied the other day, but I also wanted to share a few other things.
This short segment from Ajahn Pasanno. I like that he talks about hiri and ottappa as self-respect and respect for others. Hiri and Ottappa | Abhayagiri Monastery
Like Adutiya said, hiri ottappa is very much rooted in right view and a correct understanding of kamma. That is that our actions have consequences. With hiri and ottappa we acknowledge this and therefore practice right intention → right samādhi. It also speaks to respecting life and the humanity of others, rather than acting from the conceit that I am better, worse or the same.
I also thought I’d drop in AN10.76 as a dependent liberation sequence which includes hiri and ottappa.
9 Likes
Respectable madam Alexandra
I am extremely sorry for addressing venerable Bhikkuni as Sir instead of madam. Please forgive me.
1 Like
Dear Sunitā
Please don’t feel bad.
I understood you as being respectful. Sir was fine, but just venerable is better which is why it is in my profile.
Many users have gender and pronouns in their profiles. You can click on a user’s icon and see.
2 Likes
Venerable,
I am grateful for your time and consideration.
I read the article,’ The Guardians of the World by venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi © 1998 ’
3 Likes
Oh interesting. I just got to the same place while re-reading Bhante Bodhi’s commentary on the Abhidhammattasangaha, and he mentioned the commentarial analysis that sees self-respect as the proximate cause of hiri and for others as ottappa. The one for hiri I especially like, because for a long time I’ve been using “moral dignity” for it.
4 Likes
I really like moral dignity!
6 Likes
For an academic perspective, there is a paper by Peter Harvey, which has a nice table detailing the most common translations of the two words and some analysis.
The_Nature_And_Role_of_Hiri_and_Ottappa.pdf (256.2 KB)
8 Likes
Thanks, Trusolo, for posting the Peter Harvey paper, it’s quite good.
2 Likes
Thank you it’s a good key paper for study on hiri.
2 Likes
Applause applause applause 
From Peter Harvey’s paper:
One can see hiri as one’s moral compass, ethical attunement, one’s sense of what is right and good, expressed in moral resolve. ‘Conscience’ seems to be the best fit for hiri, it being explained by the 2021 Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy…
and
Ottappa is ‘fear of repercussions’, that is, fear of the bad consequences of reckless, unwholesome actions. It may vary from a mild form of fear in the form of concern, as with attentiveness to possible dangers while driving, up to dread of an action’s consequences. It keeps one on the right track through fear of the various unpleasant consequences of unwholesome actions: blame from others, especially wise people one respects, and also other social and legal repercussions, and a bad rebirth.
This seems resonant with Bhikkhu Bodhi’s definitions (summarized in Harvey’s paper and noted elsewhere). I normally wouldn’t posit “fear” as a helpful state of mind in conversations with people. But it makes sense as it relates to ottappa where fear = acute awareness (without trauma).
Thank you, Ven. Pasanna, as I’ve never read AN10.76 before. (I have miles [of AN] to go before I sleep 
.)
After giving up three things you can give up disregard, being hard to admonish, and having bad friends.What three?Lack of conscience, imprudence, and negligence.After giving up these three things you can give up disregard, being hard to admonish, and having bad friends.
Mendicants, someone who has conscience and prudence is diligent.
Where lack of conscience, imprudence, and negligence read in the pāli:
ahirikaṁ pahāya, anottappaṁ pahāya, pamādaṁ pahāya
It’s interesting how hiri and ottappa – with appamādo – develop from abandoning three things that arguably fit in a relational context.
That is, lack of regard (by others), which I read loosely as not gaining people’s trust and respect; obstinate denial or refutation of others’ well-meaning feedback; and refusal to develop friendships with those who live wholesome lives.
This would suggest we cultivate hiri by gaining people’s trust and respect;
we cultivate ottappa by welcoming others’ helpful feedback and insight (ostensibly in the context of saṅgha but let’s say from wise, friendly people);
and we cultivate pamādo by developing friendships with those who live wholesome lives (i.e., they are sober).
For a great thread on appamādo and using “sober” as a translation, I recommend Dogen’s:
For me, AN10.76 gives fresh meaning to hiri and ottappa because it suggests their cultivation depend on how I am in relationship with others. Necessarily hiri and ottappa require self-reflection as a form of assessment. (Much of the sutta reads, to me, as developing capacity for self reflection “in the world” – see beginning of AN10.76.)
So now it’s easier for me to understand hiri and ottappa in Ven. Brahmali’s and Bhikkku Bodhi’s teachings with AN10.76 in mind.
I went to Amazon and read the free preview. One can simply read the table of contents to get an idea.
I have to think that western modernization ushered in demands that took people out of community with others.
Absent a community as a kind of reflecting pool, we are largely left to ourselves to cultivate hiri and ottappa (and appamādo). Personally, I don’t think we’re built for this, which is why it gets distorted or mutated into a kind of modern western disease (see John Bradshaw’s book preview). People who hold power take advantage (“evil”).
As I’m convinced that many diseases of modernity have to be treated with modern medicine (psychotherapy and other modalities), it’s a hard subject to discuss within a Buddhist context IMO.
2 Likes
I think you mean appamādo. Pamādo is a thing to be abandoned.
3 Likes
Indeed! Thank you for this correction. That gets me every time…because
ahirikaṁ …anottappaṁ …
are listed right before in the series 
. I went into the post and fixed it.
2 Likes
Venerable, heartfelt thanks for the interactive discussion.
1 Like