How can a mantra be a path to liberation?

Could you substantiate your argument a little bit? I am afraid I don’t quite understand it.

Besides, I would highly recommend reading this paper as an introduction to the current sholarly theories about the language of the early Sutta transmission. I somehow sense that it is possible you are not quite in the know about the current state of the research (if you are, I apologize :slight_smile:)

Its a sign to say he was hindu god

If the above link doesn’topen for some reason, please consult this paper.

I fear if it is preserved in pure form

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd48.htm

http://www.kaladanpress.org/index.php/article-mainmenu-27/34-others/4267-why-buddhism-declined.html

I will leave this discussion here. Your replies are not specific and you bring things not related to my reply. This is clearly a debate for the sake of debate and I would kindly request you consider re reading my reply.

Last but not least I would remind that:

  1. the noble task of fully understanding pertains to the noble truth of suffering,
  2. which in turn point to the noble truth of the cause of suffering and its respective tasks of abandoning these causes.
  3. The noble truth of the-path to the cessaof suffering is all about the noble task of cultivating/developing it.
  4. And the noble truth of the end of suffering has as the respective noble task verifying or realising it by oneself.

This is a fundamental detail and practical aspect of Buddha’s teaching and was present since his first sermon for a very specific reason.

Debates, discussions and conversations about the dhamma should have above all the four noble truths and its respective tasks as the guidance.

When you asked the topic’s opening question you got good enough answers. In short while we now know as Buddhist mantras cannot be found in early Suttas as part of the path in later traditions it is an aspect of what is called skilful means and is taken as an aid to one’s cultivation of at least three factors of the path: right thought, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration.

An evidence that this is not heretical is that still nowadays we see traditions in south Buddhism which make use of similar aids such as the word ‘bud-dho’, the mental labeling, and even the breath counting.

Last but not least, don’t forget that in a spiritual practice that for centuries relied on oral transmission to survive all sort of mnemonic tools are needed.

And the exegetical tradition of the mantra you put specifically for discussion is very close to serving this purpose as the syllables are matched to remind one to perfections of the mind (paramis) that are ought to be grown as one takes the noble task of cultivating the path on his own aiming at fulfilling the noble task of realising for himself the end of suffering.

Thus by keeping in mind constantly the noble truths and their respective specific tasks saves one from confusion and consists of in itself the first step of the path, development of right view.

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I mean, it can even be ineffective - I certainly believe it isn’t really that effective if one practices it in a full-on Vajrayana mode. But if one wants to follow the early practices only, on can just not do the mantra stuff and that’s it. What other people do is up to them, the evidence is all here :slight_smile:

@Jay15191 Erm, what exactly do you think is not original in the Chinese or Gandhari Agamas? Like, specifically? Okay, not minor details like where this or that discourse was given or how the deva the Buddha talked to was called, but like doctrinal or practical points?

Okey i apologize if i cant answer to your replies
But why is that buddha practiced many kind of meditation from many teachers before he new ultimate truth
How fair is the chance that text was preserved (knowledge out of his enlightenment) but the way to enlightment was not (we see different practices to do meditation n interpreting with pitika)
If you look any other meditation practices prevailing in india they should also lead to nibanna .they are also mindful meditation only thing is they dont interpret it via teachings of buddha via tipitika (a new sect will emerge)
Why different traditions have their own way atleast buddha might not have taught different way to meditate

The beautiful thing here is that the Dhamma is open source and free of copyrights.

As long as the four noble truths and tasks are brought in, id est it involves a eightfold path and unfolds into individual realisation/verification of the cessation of suffering, there you have something valid and good enough to be packed as Buddhism.

“In any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is not found, no contemplative of the first… second… third… fourth order [stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner, or arahant] is found.
But in any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is found, contemplatives of the first… second… third… fourth order are found.
The noble eightfold path is found in this doctrine & discipline, and right here there are contemplatives of the first… second… third… fourth order. Other teachings are empty of knowledgeable contemplatives. And if the monks dwell rightly, this world will not be empty of arahants.”
–DN16

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But My question is why his practice to meditate was not preserved in any tipitika did the people of that time believed that meditation is not so important i guess that can not be true + knowledge out of enlightenment is more .way to meditate is less

How is it that it was not??

If it was so precise there would not b different tradition practising meditation differently by interpreting from canon

The Buddha himself used different approaches to different disciples, this is well recorded. However he did so in a very wise way, providing guiding reference points as generic and broad as possible, hence the quotation i highlighted above from DN16.

I do respect your words but that doesn’t give answer to my query why different traditions have different meditation techniques
If it was so precisely mentioned their would not b different techniques
(Techniques are interpretation)
His teachings were according to person depending on person’s abilities to understand according to ones virtue (arhant ,non arhants, lay man, every class, caste visited him)
But this doesnt lead my question
Because he was wise he would have known about more sect more tradition more perplexity

Hi Jay,

You might be interested in the discussion in this thread:

One possible answer to your question is that the exact meditation technique is unimportant, it’s the results that are important. The suttas tend to say more about results than techniques: the common pericopes about jhana don’t mention technique at all.

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That is what i said knowledge out of enlightenment~teachings of buddha

As long as at their core these different tradition share the same path factors - as they do - they only differ in terms of creativity of skillful means.

And in reference to the tradition which uses the mantra you mention at the beginning of this topic, the more I study about it the more I understand the very core elements are there, just framed in a slightly different way and of course in some cases hidden in many many layers of cultural and folkloric wrapping.

And repeating myself, spending time conjecturing and over theorising on why the path is framed differently across traditions and cultures that up to few decades ago were totally alien to each other does not sound as a very wise occupation vis-a-vis the urgency of our own cultivation of the path.

As i said many many meditation techniques are prevailing When one practices them n compare them with sutta some might match some might not (interpretation)
You see at time of buddha also many reached many stages but only buddha discovered the right way to enlightenment
So benefits were also present at his time and is so at now

I am leaving this topic
Theres nothing fruitful outcome
If somebody visits here n can guide me n help me with my query
I will be grateful to him
@ gnlaera
mikenz66 Dkervik scmetta
Vstakan

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The answer is as easy as it gets: people like to make up things. Someone somewhere tried the correct mehtod, it didn’t work for them for one reason or another. They tried somethinп different and it kinda had results: not the Enlightenment but maybe a jhana, maybe supernatural abilities, maybe, I don’t know, warm cozy feeling in their belly. So they went like: ‘Dude, this must be the true meditation the Lord Buddha taught!’

People will make up things no matter how clear and specific the initial message is. Look at Islam and Christianity. Their holiest books are quite specific in their teachings, and still there are dozens of traditions. Everything conditioned is anatta, impermanent. Everything conditioned gets worn down, runs downhill, becomes dilapidated. Everything. Even the Buddha’s message. Not the Dhamma itself, mind you, but rather the way the Dhamma is transmitted, the very specific contents of the texts we read, the way people transmit and understand the Buddhasasana. One day their will be no more Buddhism on this planet. There will be no Buddhism in this Universe. No true teaching. No true meditation. Welcome to Sansara!

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@Jay15191 Jay called me SCmetta, haha, I love it! :heart:

I hope your discontentment can be appeased. Either by finding a satisfactory answer, or by realizing the question isn’t worth pursuing any further.

To paraphrase the dvedhāvitakka sutta: Does this thought lead to my own affliction, or the affliction of others? Does it obstruct wisdom, cause difficulties?

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