How can one recognize the Four Noble Truths in the present moment?

I think this is quite a fundamental question, but I haven’t found useful information, so I’d like to ask again. The Four Noble Truths are said to be truths that can be seen immediately in the present moment, so I believe it must be something very basic that anyone can recognize if shown by a teacher. Are the Four Noble Truths divided into four specific stages over time: Suffering, Origin, Cessation, and Path?

I find it a bit contrary to the usual cause-and-effect sequence when the Four Noble Truths are presented as Suffering, Origin, Cessation, and Path. Normally, it should follow the sequence of Origin, Suffering, Path, and Cessation, in line with the natural law of cause and effect over time, right?

I look forward to receiving your comments.

The Four Noble Truths are said to be truths that can be seen immediately in the present moment

Said by whom?

I find it a bit contrary to the usual cause-and-effect sequence when the Four Noble Truths are presented as Suffering, Origin, Cessation, and Path. Normally, it should follow the sequence of Origin, Suffering, Path, and Cessation, in line with the natural law of cause and effect over time, right?

Well the causal ordering seems to be the order in which one would arrive at the truths—being struck by the suffering of existence, asking why there is such suffering, asking whether there’s any freedom from this suffering, and asking how to get there. It’d be odd to start thinking about the origin of suffering if one weren’t already preoccupied with thinking about the suffering of conditioned existence.

That’s not to say that I think the ordering is necessarily of great practical significance.

SN 56.30 seems to suggest that the Four Noble Truths are seen together:

Venerable Gavampati said to those senior mendicants:

“Reverends, I have heard and learned this in the presence of the Buddha: ‘Someone who sees suffering also sees the origin of suffering, the cessation of suffering, and the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering. Someone who sees the origin of suffering also sees suffering, the cessation of suffering, and the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering. Someone who sees the cessation of suffering also sees suffering, the origin of suffering, and the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering. Someone who sees the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering also sees suffering, the origin of suffering, and the cessation of suffering.’”

Though it’s interesting that the content of the sutta itself is presented as hearsay rather than directly attributing the saying to the Buddha. I’m not sure of the significance of this. I’m also not sure if the notion expressed in the sutta is found anywhere else in the canon.

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It’s formulated with “path” at the end so that you walk the path. The promise of “cessation” is the motivation. Generally we experience suffering, walk the path, understand the cause of suffering, and then understand the cessation of suffering. The logical procession of the truths are formulated for the sake of effectiveness. You need that specific order to demonstrate the path. But yea, we arrive at truth three after completing truth 4. They’re truths. They don’t need to be understood in the order they’re presented. But the path is laid out so that you might understand truths three and two

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There are in SN/SA suttas two formulations of the following characteristics to be observed in the four noble truths, i.e. the arising and cessing of dukkha, in the present moment:

The connection between
(1) anicca, dukkha, anatta
(2) anacca, dukkha, suñña, anatta

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Said by whom?

Furthermore, you should recollect the teaching: ‘The teaching is well explained by the Buddha—apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves.’

SN 56.30 seems to suggest that the Four Noble Truths are seen together

I’m not quite sure about this. Seeing one thing and then seeing another doesn’t mean seeing everything at once.

I don’t understand your point. Could you elaborate further? :smiley:

The logical procession of the truths are formulated for the sake of effectiveness.

In my actual experience, everything indeed follows the sequence: Suffering, Origin, Cessation, and Path.

And I see it as a loop: Suffering → Origin → Cessation → Path → Suffering…

It’s just that I don’t understand why it isn’t the opposite (the natural order of cause and effect).

For elaborating further according to the SN/SA suttas, I suggest you may need to read the following pages in the books by Choong Mun-keat:

pp. 23-31, The Notion of Emptiness in Early Buddhism (1995; second revised edition, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, 1999).

pp. 52-60, The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism: A Comparative Study Based on the Sūtrāṅga portion of the Pāli Saṃyutta-Nikāya and the Chinese Saṃyuktāgama (Series: Beitrage zur Indologie Band 32; Harrassowitz Verlag, Wiesbaden, 2000).

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Pages 23-31 from Notion of Emptiness in Early Buddhism Choong Mun-keat.pdf (5.0 MB)

Pages 52-4 from The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism Choong Mun-keat 2000-3.pdf (226.0 KB)
Pages 55-60 from The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism Choong Mun-keat 2000.pdf (447.3 KB)

The 4 Noble Truths follow the pattern of a diagnosis.
What is the problem? Suffering
What is the cause? Craving
What is the prognosis? End of suffering
What is the treatment? Noble Eightfold Path

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Would you like this explained by reference to the Suttas? :slightly_smiling_face:

(Awww… who am I kidding… its difficult for me to stop when it comes to quoting the Suttas! :rofl:)

Consider this example from MN101

Suppose a man is in love with a woman, full of intense desire and lust. Then he sees her standing together with another man, chatting, giggling, and laughing.

What do you think, mendicants? Would that give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress for him?”

“Yes, sir.

When the man realizes that he is experiencing Dukkha, he has realized the First Noble Truth.

Why is that? Because that man is in love with that woman, full of intense desire and lust.”

Then that man might think: ‘I’m in love with that woman, full of intense desire and lust. When I saw her standing together with another man, chatting, giggling, and laughing, it gave rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress for me.

This realization is the Second Noble Truth.

Why don’t I give up that desire and lust for that woman?’ So that’s what he did. Some time later he sees her again standing together with another man, chatting, giggling, and laughing.

What do you think, mendicants? Would that give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress for him?”

“No, sir. Why is that? Because he no longer desires that woman.”

This is the Third Noble Truth.

From this admittedly coarse example, the sutta then progresses to analyzing the methodology behind the further development of the Path - thus fleshing out the Fourth Noble Truth.


(I’d like to point out that the 4 Noble Truths are Universal Truths. Hence they are equally valid for both the lover seeking relief from the Suffering felt due to his unrequited love as well as the ascetic seeking relief from the Suffering felt on account of unsatisfactory Sense experience.)

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They are not stages over time. Each noble truth has a specific “goal” (for one of a better term).

SN56.11

‘This noble truth of suffering should be completely understood.
‘Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhaṁ ariyasaccaṁ pariññeyyan

Suffering is to be parinneyya = completely understood.

This noble truth of the origin of suffering should be given up.
Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhasamudayaṁ ariyasaccaṁ pahātabban

Craving needs to be pahātabban = given up

‘This noble truth of the cessation of suffering should be realized.
‘Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhanirodhaṁ ariyasaccaṁ sacchikātabban

The cessation of suffering needs to be sacchikātabban = personally realized

‘This noble truth of the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering should be developed.

‘Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā ariyasaccaṁ bhāvetabban
The noble 8 fold path needs to be bhāvetabban = developed.

As you can see above, each individual noble truth has a specific goal/purpose.

Cause and effect is more relevant to dependent origination, as opposed to the 4 Noble truths. They are different, but still related. :anjal:

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