How can we know if a sutta was heard in the first person or not?

[Jasudho]

It’s been said by Ven. Sujato that "Evaṁ me sutaṁ" indicates that a sutta was heard by someone and subsequently transmitted to another person rather than, as tradition holds, that these were the words of Ānanda who purportedly heard them first-hand and later recounted them at the first Council.
May I ask how we know this?

Also, what phrase would indicate a first-person hearing and recounting of a sutta in the EBTs?

Asking out of curiosity.

[Adutiya]

Who narrated Ananda's suttas?

According to tradition, Ananda is the main author of the Pali Canon’s Sutta Pitaka, in the sense that he was in charge of remembering the suttas and narrating them during the first council. From what I know, the suttas that he narrates start with “Thus have I heard” (Evaṃ me sutaṃ). I am reading MN52 and this sutta starts with the same form, but the sutta is about a conversation between Dasama of Aṭṭhakanāgara and Ananda. Therefore, this text must have been narrated by someone else during th…

[SDC]

@Jasudho

May I ask how we know this?

We don’t. A breakthrough in understanding is really the only verification that anything in the Canon is what it describes.

@Jasudho

Also, what phrase would indicate a first-person hearing and recounting of a sutta in the EBTs?

The only first-person account I am aware of other than Ananda is that of the laywoman Khujjuttarā, the reciter of the Itivuttaka. Her accounts begin with, “Vuttañhetaṁ bhagavatā vuttamarahatāti me sutaṁ This was said by the Lord, said by the Arahant, so I heard.”

[prajnadeva]

That’s what I think, but I’ve also heard it from the perfected ones.”
Evaṁ me ettha hoti, evañca pana me etaṁ arahataṁ sutan”ti.
MN 84

“Sir, I have heard and learned this in the presence of the Buddha: “
Sammukhā metaṁ, bhante, bhagavato sutaṁ, sammukhā paṭiggahitaṁ:
MN 123

[Jasudho]

Thanks very much! I wasn’t aware of the prior entry from 2017.