How could we keep going alone in our path, without pain?

The Watercooler
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Good day people, I hope you’re doing great this week.

I’d like to start this discussion with some words from the Dhammapada:

“If you gain a mature companion
(a fellow traveler, right living, enlightened)
overcoming all dangers,
go with him,
gratified,
mindful.

If you don’t get a mature companion…
go alone
like a king renouncing his kingdom,
like the elephant in the
Matanga hills,
his herd.

Going alone is better.
There’s no companionship with a fool.
Go alone,
doing no evil, at peace,
like the elephant in the
Matanga wilds”.

*Dhammapada, Verses 328 - 330, Thanissaro Bhikkhu’s translation.
*
Why did I decided to start with this words? Because I find them inspirational, and that’s something I truly want to develop: the capacity of not getting dependent emocionally with people.
When I’m home and meditating, they give me strenght and a reason to keep moving forward; when I’m surrounded by people, I feel like a sense of pain and “mental weight”, so to say, when I try to go alone (I’m a college student, so I have to interact with people all the time).

Let’s see, my goal is not to isolate myself, but rather I’d like not to feel that sense of sadness and mental weight whenever I have to leave. The cause of that pain is because I’d like my companions and friends to give me “more” (more attention, more care, etc). Maybe that sounds crazy, but that’s what I thought today after reflection.

I know the Buddha already told us that conditions are impermanent, that we have to be departed of all we hold dear and beloved, and I want to keep following his teachings; but again, when I through myself to the world, it’s difficult for me to remember those words, as everytime I have to leave (in this case, from college) I feel that sense of pain and sadness, although I do my best to keep moving forward and not clinging to that pain.

Ok, in short words: I wouldn’t like to develop emotional dependence towards people and, I’d like to not keep feeling that pain I commented above.

How could I do that? I’m open to your thoughts. Maybe this is too personal, but I couldn’t find another place to talk about this, and the Buddha said that “asking questions to brahmins and ascetics is the path to develop wisdom”. So, here I am, he he…

Blessings!

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I am certainly no brahmin or ascetic, but here are my two cents:

From what I gather (and I may as well could be wrong, there are more learned people here that can certainly answer you better), these verses aren’t strictly about emotional dependence or commanding you to withdraw from people emotionally or avoid them or make isolation a personality trait, but rather, that it is better to be alone than to be stuck in unwholesome patters and actions, or to associate with those who do not support the path or pull you into delusion. In the latter case, being alone is arguably the smarter choice.

But the whole issue is not about being with others or being alone to begin with. The Buddha emphasized the value of good friendships and the Sangha too was set up specifically in such a “parasitic” way as to avoid their total isolation from laypeople. So the issue is not being alone or not. You already said that you want more attention, care, etc., and when you don’t get it, i.e. have to leave, it weighs on you. Is this simply anything but craving? You are noticing the most elementary way taṇhā and dukkha work. Note it as it rises, don’t become distant or avoidant but sit with it (this – and replacing demand with mettā – is what helped me because what you describe feels similar). Over time, you will learn to appreciate good company without needing them to regulate how you feel. Your attachment to this attention arises, stays briefly and disappears, right? It depends on the conditions of other people’s behavior and you can’t control it, so it can never be stable and satisfactory.

Your mind has to get disenchanted from the desire for an emotional return from people over time (I know this is easier said than done, and I think most of us struggle with this too). Even without the Buddhist explanation of this mechanism, this is simple modern cognitive psychology. Your solution is not less people, but less expectations from them. It’s normal that it’s easier in solitude to meditate and gather strength as you said, but the real challenge is staying mindful in the social situations you describe; notice this craving as it happens and don’t act on it mentally (like complaining internally, fantasizing and whatnot). The more clear it becomes that this weight is directly tied to expectation and not the people, the lighter it becomes.

Dhp 216:

Sorrow springs from craving,

fear springs from craving;

one free from craving

has no sorrow, let alone fear.

I wish you well, friend.

With Mettā!

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Thank you so much for your insight my friend. Maybe you’re not a bhraman or ascetic, but that’s ok (what I meant there is I wanted to make this question, as I couldn’t find a solution for that issue somewhere else).

Yeah, you’re right, it’s not the people who have the fault, but rather, I would say my expectations create that pain. My intention is not to keep feeding those expectations. Maybe this is easier said than done, but I believe it’s possible to detach not from people, but CRAVING instead.

Again, thanks for your words. I wish you all the best too!

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It’s helpful to remember that the Buddha did say to Ananda that having spiritual friends is the whole of the holy life.

Exactly, and I believe this is what was meant by:

It’s a vetting process in a way, to seek company were your values are aligned with like-minded people.

I think something like interdependence is a more appropriate term. Because traditionally, laypeople provide monastics with physical requisites, and in return monastics provide spiritual nourishment through teachings/Dhamma talks etc.

Parasites tend to just take without giving anything back to the host. :anjal:

From Wikipedia Parasitism - Wikipedia

Parasitism is a close relationship between species, where one organism, the parasite, lives (at least some of the time) on or inside another organism, the host, causing it some harm,[

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Nice question :+1:

Because in the core of being there’s no one else but «me» Me born, aging, getting sick and finally dying. Yes, there are lots of other «me’s» around, but their core is the same, so one can lean on the nice density of others, but when the energy runs out, one is back to being alone again and again.

The pain becomes lighter the more one stays close to the core, because of there are less density the closer one gets to it, so if one feels vulnerable that is a good sign, because it’s caused by the density of psychological ego thinning out and grasp for existence.

Don’t protect yourself, see how vulnerable you can get, and soon what felt vulnerable is a faint memory.

We vibrate and create friction - particles collapsing into waves, if there is no density there are no friction, and the only place free from friction is at the core.

My ramblings :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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Many people can relate to how you feel. This is a common human struggle, and we have teachings and practices that can help us work with it. Attachment doesn’t magically disappear; we have to gradually work toward loosening it.

Truly understanding impermanence is powerful, and it shows in a few important ways. One is that our attachments begin to fall away. Another, which is especially wise, is that we learn to fully appreciate and make the most of what is here while it still exists—without clinging to it. This is crucial, especially for anyone who is not a renunciant and continues to live a lay life.

So, to relate that to your situation: enjoy the company of your friends. Laugh with them, cry with them, love them. Make the most of the time you spend together by being fully present. There’s no need to stain those moments with sorrow about some imagined future loneliness—that only diminishes your ability to enjoy having them in your life right now.

And when on your own, throw yourself fully into whatever you are doing in that moment. If you’re alone, enjoy your solitude. Meditate in your “seclusion,” care for what needs your attention, and draw meaning and richness from that loneliness as well. Extract the substance from everything that’s insubstantial.

Apply what you learn from meditation to life in general: when the mind wanders into unskillful thoughts or unrealistic, harmful perspectives, simply acknowledge it, gently redirect your attention to the present moment, and recognize that your whole life is right there, in front of you. If you don’t live it joyfully, you’re letting it slip by.

I hope this is at least a little helpful.

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Yes, perhaps @kartulidhamma meant to use the word “symbiotic”?

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Yes, my bad on that one! I was going to say “mutualist” and then for some reason wrote out parasitic. In my defense, it was 3AM :sweat_smile:

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There was a related thread about the topic a couple months ago that you might be interested in. I’ll quote my thoughts on it, which includes a relevant sutta too:

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I also like this question. I’ve had these same thoughts about human contact ie: friends and family.

I am enjoying seclusion more, and due to a medical condition, have lost many of my friends. I rarely have human contact, and at the beginning it was really devastating for my mind and ego. When I would have contact with others, I had the same kind of ‘protecting’ or ‘stealing’ myself for contact, particularly if the contact was uncomfortable. I would put up walls around me to protect myself.

Through the process of meditation and studying the suttas I have observed that doing the opposite is far calmer and less destructive. I have become more translucent, or opaque, or something like that. I’m not sure exactly the word.

It’s like awarewolf said, without density. Not that I don’t feel, or care, or connect. I just don’t ingest (well, not as much anyway):blush: . The practice helps a lot with that. It seems that if one can perceive oneself as without density, the sticky stuff doesn’t stick so much. In that way, you don’t have to carry it around with you. It can be left behind.

I am not a brahmin or an ascetic. I’m just starting on the path. But, this is what I have observed for myself. I hope it will be helpful.

Ease and Peace to you.

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Good day my friend, I hope you’re doing well. I just wanna say thank you so much, as I found those words to be wonderful and blessing. I’ll take your advice in mind: to see that mental weight as a passing condition, with care and softness, not punishment.

May you be well and happy too.

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I once relied on walls for safety, but I have since learned to rest in the awareness of the emotional body. When impressions arise, I release the energy before the mind can seize it, preventing it from becoming a localized ‘self’ lost in time. To me, this is the practice of breaking the cycle of dependent origination—dissolving the link between contact, desire, and grasping. This can be done without moving, and sometimes it’s best to also increase the physical distance. It’s not about the other part being good or bad, just vibrations that act from different frequencies and are disharmonious on another.

Translucent is a nice word, me myself love Black Holes, they are full of emptiness where light finds no landing.

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No, neither am I, but where have I been and what have I done if I consider wandering in Samsara countless lifetimes, and is it possible to discover hidden talents developed by let’s say an former ascetic?

Be well and happy :bubbles::hole::bubbles:

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In this regard, it seems important to recognize how you are feeling before and during contact with others. Sometimes it seems more difficult to recognize the arising and changing frequencies even within oneself. During those times, it’s best to step back from actively participating, and maybe do some more observation and be less immersed in the external. And, sometimes, if I can’t recognize these arisings at all; I abstain from contact until I feel empty enough of my own thoughts (changing my own frequency).

When my thoughts are overwhelming me (if I’ve read some news, or something about climate change, or if I’m distracted by some incident that has occurred in my life), I feel like I need to express my own feelings, and sometimes feel like I want others to feel like I feel. This is (for me) where the pain arises. Particularly if the other person (people) have a different view/feeling. I begin this spiral of trying to convince the other party to have the same opinion/perception/feeling. That is when I feel pain, and sometimes even physical pain. Upset stomach, headache, things like that. That is when I know I must step back and observe myself first.

After I can calm these thoughts and feelings, then I remember how hard it is for someone else to change my mind. When I can remember that, I can stop trying to change the minds of others. I don’t need to physically remove myself from the situation (though there are times I have), just trying to recognize these processes.

That said, I do like to exchange thoughts and feelings with others. I like to help and to be helped. I enjoy hearing different opinions and sharing experiences with others, if I feel it will help them or me in some way.

I’ve enjoyed watching many of the workshops posted at the BSWA and try to emulate the process I see there. I often, throughout the day, will just take a five minutes meditation…sometimes even shorter, then I feel more prepared to connect with others.

I think I’ve been here. Only twice, only briefly, but…quite a thing. :blush:

Ease and peace.

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Dedicated practice has made this instinctive. I spend my mornings resetting my body to get it ready for the day. This routine is non-negotiable, especially when navigating a toxic environment filled with constant distractions, both seen and unseen.

The body becomes an instrument one can say.

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