How do you know if you’ve destroyed a fetter, and not just temporarily “subdued” it?

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Hello everyone,

What’s the difference between someone who (temporarily) transcends sensuality and someone annihilating the fetter of sensuality in an irreversible way? Maybe the former could be convinced that they’re completely done with it, as the desire for sensuality has apparently ceased, (as in old age perhaps) but in fact that’s not the case.

I’ve been thinking that the former may, as in the case of a brahma god, after some time descend to lower realms again and be born as a human or rat, or whatever, after their time is up in their heavenly “desire-less” state— so apparently the fetter of coarse desire is still there but lay dormant so to speak.

So, how do you know if it’s really destroyed?

On this point, seems there’s quite a big difference between coarse desires ‘of the flesh’, and more subtle desires for what may be called realms of luminous form, and formless realms.
As expressed in AN 10.13 (at least by Bhikkhu Sujato); ”What are the five higher fetters? Desire for rebirth in the realm of luminous form, desire for rebirth in the formless realm, conceit, restlessness, and ignorance. These are the five higher fetters.”

These fetters must likewise be hard to know if they’re truly destroyed or not.

If I were to guess it has to do with having wisdom, and right view. You clearly know the gratification, the danger, and the escape from feeling, form, and the formless. But I’m just wondering if it’s rather easy to fool oneself about this.

Any thoughts? Or references I can look up? Thank you in advance.

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Real life testing is the most obvious way for now.

In the Vinaya, some monks overestimate their attainments only to discover later that their defilements is still appearing

<Overestimation in the vinaya>

Another test that can be done is this, In <Thag 5.1>, a monk’s lust arose when seeing a dead body.

In another sutta, <Venerable Mahākassapa taught about overestimation>

So probably the only way is to do real life testing based on these suttas

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I think it is. Venerable Ananda from time of ordination had no any perception connected with sensuality and yet he was not non-returner. While we can be certain that presence of the slightest sensual thought means that one isn’t non-returner, it doesn’t go the other way round. Average monk with long experience can be without any sensual thoughts…

People who understand that the main goal of Dhamma practice on the first place is to erase any self-image would be very careful to lebel their state as this or that attainment, but for others the temptation of thinking about oneself “I am non-returner” may become too strong.

That’s why, I think, there is much more claims of anagami state, than claims of being arahat. The last is much more easily to recognise, and one must be really delusional to claim arahathood without actually being one.

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