SuttaCentral
It is very unlikely that the extent all EBTs were originally and completely established at once, or developed in one complete content and system!
It is very unlikely that the Buddha in the extent all EBTs created fully the complete idealistic and systematic terms for his teachings!
Iâm not sure who youâre arguing with. No-one is saying this.
I should say:
Yes, it is very unlikely that the extent all EBTs were originally and completely established at once, or developed in one complete content and system!
My heartfelt gratitude to you for sharing this. As a novice practitioner in the Myanmar Vipassana tradition, I have been perplexed by many of the issues that were introduced to me (and you have highlighted them here).
What would your advice be to someone like me who is taking baby steps on the path? As you pointed out, being part of such a community gives me the motivation to keep progressing but also demands compliance to some of these ideas that I find perplexing.
I am also mindful that I am not yet in a position to distinguish whether these doubts are due to my ignorance or whether I am on to something significant.
Iâm glad I can help, and my little essay was really meant for people like you. So that you know youâre not alone!
My first thought would be that having such questions and doubts doesnât make you a heretic, it makes you human, and a sincere and dedicated one at that. Itâs always easier to just comply.
Now, highlighting difference should not obscure the fact of similarity. And there are countless things offered in modern Theravada that people find supportive and inspiring, yet are not in the suttas: lay retreats, group meditation; heck, even monks using the internet!
The red flag in your question is âdemand complianceâ. This is not a good sign! Sure, if youâre in a monastery or other context, then itâs reasonable to expect compliance in terms of behavioral norms, group harmony and so on. But when it comes to a reasonable diversity of beliefs, people should understand that this is normal and healthy.
What I would suggest is this. When staying in a monastery or community, given that you have chosen to be there, give yourself to it. Follow their practices and teachings as best you can, so long as you are there. Thatâs the way to learn. If you are forever doubting what you are doing while doing it, youâll never really know. If you have questions or doubts that canât be answered in that situation, donât reject them, but set them aside for the time being.
Then, make sure there is a limit on this. Maybe itâs a retreat period, or the duration of a stay. When the time is up, leave, get some distance, and reflect. Donât let yourself be consumed by either devotional commitment or by grievance and regret. Look back at the time and ask what you have learned. Ask whether this is the path for you. Ask what you want to do next time. Give yourself time to let these questions percolate and resonate. If you want to try something else, give it a go and see what happens. After all, thatâs what the Bodhisatta did!
Needless to say, this only applies in an environment that is generally wholesome. If your experience is one of bullying and abuse, if you feel belittled, denigrated, or discriminated, then understand that this is not normal or good, and get out.
I took a run at translating the article into Chinese for my friends. It is a rough draft, perhaps others can help correct mistakes and clean it up.
ćć§äœæćććłäœæäčéäžäșäž»èŠćć„.pdf (1.4 MB)
Although the present Sutra/Sutta and Vinaya pitakas (i.e. the extant collections of teachings and Sangha rules) are sectarian texts, their essential structure and content, recognised in common by all schools of Sectarian Buddhism, were certainly established in the period of Early Buddhism.
Venerable,
This is wonderful! Thank you! As a typography nerd, I can say that you have a gift at formatting. 
One question: when I downloaded the pdf, the table of contents is superimposed on the first page of text. Is that an issue with my computer or the PDF?
Thanks. Much credit has to go to my wonderful typography teacher Lyndon Whaite who I still remember with fondness 20+ years on. Not just a great designer but a great person.
Something must have slipped when I made changes to the cover. I have reuploaded the file with this page fixed. My apologies.
ebt_v_thera.pdf (406.5 KB)
Hello Bhante,
I am not sure if you are still seeking feedback on this list, but it seems the 10 stages of insight/insight knowledges may be a relevant addition.
Oh yes, good point I should add it, thanks! This was actually one of the first things where I noticed the difference. In my meditation center, everyone was talking about yÄn (the Thai pronunciation of ñÄáča, i.e. vipassanañÄáča) and when I started reading suttas I looked for them and couldnât find them. The suttas were always talking about this other thing I had never heard of: jhÄna.
Dear Bhante @sujato,
Can you explain the bold statement above? I think that consciousness is not experienced in the whole body. According to my understanding to the suttas, five sense consciousnesses are experienced in the corresponding sense organ, body consciousness (kaya-vinnana) is experienced in the part of body which is contacted by touch or other physical contact to the body, and mind consciousness (mano-vinnana) is experienced in the mind (not in any physical organ). Correct me if I wrong.
Thank you 
I was thinking of statements like saviññÄáčaka-kÄya, as well as metaphors of the sukha experienced in meditation.
But you may be right, my statement might be over-interpreting. Iâll take that line out, itâs not essential.
I have learned (it seems to be based on Abhidhamma) that sense-vinnana does not arise at the physical senses like the ear, the nose, the eye etc. These physical senses and brain work together. They proces sense-info from the outerworld. Such as molecules binding at tongue or nose receptors, soundwaves htting the eardrum, EM waves causing chemical en neurological reactions etc. The physical senses and the brain play a role. The brain processes it in such a way that the mind or heart can handle it. The result of this processing is that the brain sends a kind of âradiationâ to the mind or subtle mental body. These signals represent the sense-info. This sense-info arrives at the subtle mental body with itâs 5 pasada rupa around the hadaya vatthu, the seat of the mind.
These pasada rupa are the real senses of the mind, as it were. Those pasada rupa are not the physical sense-organs. Eye-vinnana does according this theory not arise in the eye or brain but in the mind. Phassa, sense contact, also refers to the contact that the signals from the brain make with one of the five pasada rupa.
Phassa, sense contact, does not refer to, for example, a molecule H2S binding at a receptor in the nose,. That is not meant by sense contact. At that moment there is no smell yet. Phassa is the moment that the brain signals caused by the binding of H2S to a receptor in the nose, triggers the specific pasada rupa around the heart, in this case the ghana pasada rupa which deals with smells. In this case the smell or rotten eggs (human experience of H2S). That moment a proces called citta vitthi arises in the heart base and also smell conciousness arises in that citta vitthi. This is the name given to the proces in which sense info from the brain is processed in a certain fixed order (citta niyama). The smell-vinnana does not arise in the nose. Those sense vinnana arise in the mind at the heart base in a mental process called citta vitthi.
Viewing from a distance, the thing which most strikes me - but I cannot put that in a specific category - is that the early suttas show a world of practitioners.
We find a monk, an arahant, who is in so much pain that he commits suicide (sn35.87). We find a dhamma talk disturbed by an ox (sn4.16). Or was it the mind which caused the disturbance?
We find a man disturbing Buddha at the wrong time, getting a brief instruction, attains liberation and gets killed by the most dangerous animal in the suttas: cows with calves (ud1.10). A monk seeks an answer, gets four different ones only adding to the confusion and comes to understanding that these answers come from the perspective from those giving the answers, which are all true (sn35.245). And we find householders discussing views with others, expressing how views are created and lead to suffering (an10.93).
There is a lot of entertainment in the suttas by just unfolding the story. But these stories have the same theme: itâs not so much on knowing as it is on knowledge based on experience. Even our humble householder states: And Iâve truly seen clearly with right wisdom.
I miss this in the far more formalised later teachings.
This, in my experience, leads that we move from a âthis is what you should do to experienceâ to âit is thusâ. Theravada became a belief system instead the early invitation to come and see.
In my early encounters with Theravada Buddhism I struggled with this, because some things just donât make sense. One of the most perverse variants on this is the colour disk kasina meditation. Itâs as if those who thought of these completely ignored that we can find these colours in the body as well, which is a far more suitable place for meditation than an outside disk. No wonder people canât attain jhanaâŠ
I consider that the entire difference between early suttas and later Theravada can be attributed to a transition from those with knowledge based on practice to knowledge based on learning.
To put it in different words: some scholar might be skilful in explaining all the sensations present when you removed your toenail and bump your toe. The average person could not care less and just wants to get rid of the pain. Theravada (not those schools/teachers based on practice) offers the former and not the latter.
I think by Theravada we mean the Pali commentary and sub commentary to Pali suttas we can critize them of course but they too would critize us, they would say you donât know Pali how would you understand the teaching ? they would say you are not born near the Buddhaâs time how would you claim your opinion is earlier opinion or your commentary is earlier commentary furthermore they would say you are no indian so how could you understand the context of the suttas during medieval India, so they would just shove the Pali commentaries
to your mouth saying the Pali commentaries have all these 3 superiority over your late English commentary
now they would further say to you, you donât even read the whole pali commentaries yet you disagree with them, is this fair, does it make sense to you ?
we can disagree with something if we have read them wholly to get the whole picture not the puzzle picture, it doesnât make sense to disagree with something you never read and Know
Nice, thanks for adding the booklet. Iâm listening to Dougâs YT now, itâs really excellent.
Just a polite request: my preferred title is âbhanteâ or as author âbhikkhuâ, not âajahnâ. Thanks!
Thanks so much, Bhante!
Hi Bhante, Got that fixed. I made the change where I have you mentioned on some other pages too, but let me know if I missed any. Thanks.
