How happy are you?

With the name sukha I would hope so :stuck_out_tongue:

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Pithy piti? I like that. :yum:

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Temporary fluctuations in level of happiness may or may not mean anything! I think the Buddha said living the ordained life, even in tears is better than doing what is unwholesome. He also, I believe, said ā€˜having gained (labha) what, am I supposed to be happyā€™?

I think progress in the path would be measured in terms of resilience to what the world throws at us- positive and negative. It is internal assurance- knowledge of progressing in the correct direction, until the immovable (akumpita) liberation of mind is attained.

With metta

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Bhante, I have a problem with the logic of this. Sometimes I think that the increased happiness that I perceive is a result of following the path, but often I suspect that it is just an artifact of getting older and more experienced with handling life. My suspicion is that Buddhism is good for me, but Iā€™ve actually got no way of knowing for sure. How can you be so definite?

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That is certainly a consideration, although I, for one, have encountered plenty of people who got older without developing much, if any, wisdom leading to happiness.

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The less of you which is present the more happiness is unmasked here

:slight_smile:

I said 70%. When I consider my first nearly 50 years of life before discovering the dhamma and the years afterward, my happiness is off the charts. When I find myself in a mind state of worry or discontent, a simple check-in, a shift to mindfulness of how all of it is fabricated, I find it makes me kind of smile. Particularly when I remember that there isnā€™t a deep, fixed entity who is being made unhappy by the conditions perceived! What if I upend the whole thing and be happy in the face of all the misery? Ha! I see you, Mara!

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I suppose thatā€™s true @Nadine, but also I guess that itā€™s true that it is very difficult to know anotherā€™s internal states. And even then, Iā€™m guessing that we donā€™t really know where they started from.

Actually I find it quite hard to really understand if I am (generally) more happy than I was (say) 20 years ago let alone trying to work out if someone else has made progress in that department. I certainly believe that I am happier than I was 20 years ago, but just how good is my memory in these things?

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I suppose the toil of the first nearly 50 years allowed you to take the dhamma seriously when you discovered it. :smiley:

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You know, I was thinking just that as I was typing my comment! It is an important question because it is so easy to fall prey to wishful thinking.

I think part of the answer is covered by @Nadine. Some people seem to get grumpier and worse at handling life as they get older. Yet I suspect this is a minority. There are surveys that show that older people are generally happier and better adjusted than their younger selves.

I suspect what is going on is that people actually become more attuned to reality as they get older. As we get older, we chuck out some of our illusions and impossible dreams. We get better at seeing what really matters, where real happiness and contentment are to be found, and how to pursue them. We stop demanding the impossible of ourselves and others. In general we get better at gauging the limitations of life. Sounds familiar, doesnā€™t it? As people get older, I suspect they get closer to Buddhist right view. Perhaps this is the reason why it seems to take a degree of maturity before people fully appreciate Buddhist ideas.

So I donā€™t really think it matters whether itā€™s life experience or Buddhism, because the two surely go hand in hand. And I would think it is when we combine the two that we get the best results in our practice.

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I came across this essay today attributed to George Orwell from Christmas 1943. He talks about utopian happiness, but I think that maybe some of his remarks apply to practice and the craving for happiness. I especially like the concluding paragraph, which begins:

Nearly all creators of Utopia have resembled the man who has toothache, and therefore thinks happiness consists in not having toothache. They wanted to produce a perfect society by an endless continuation of something that had only been valuable because it was temporary.

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Over the years I have reviewed on a monthly basis a list of some 90 fears/aversions/Ill-wills. I colour code them from green-no issue to red-big issue with orange and yellow in between.
I progressively worked on eliminating the red, then the orange and am now working the few yellow left.
I can assure you that my happiness level has over the years increased in direct proportion to the elimination of these sufferings. I voted 90%.
By the way my method for eliminating the DADs is based on the 8FP.

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Could you provide the list?

I believe properly approached physical seclusion being an essential condition for the increase of happiness. In my personal case it has contributed vitally to happiness. Of course living as a monk does render full immersion possible and helped me with this approach. In particular: I go on alms myself and eat myself and am actually free (practically just some silent sweeping in the afternoon and the pāį¹­imokkha) ā€“ this life feels in principal like pure silk on skin due to the absence of most of the manifold hassles and frictions I knew of before in lay life. This approach and potential I clearly see often mirrored or at least stressed or emphasized in the texts ā€“ early or late. Other so called mystic traditions (Christian for example) reflect this point well too.

I am thinking in support of the just mentioned about a sutta in the Saį¹ƒyuttanikāya where the Buddha related that even a Sotāpanna does experience pain leading a presumably ā€œnormalā€ and busy life, when not exerting himself in ways of a secluded lifestye, accordingly his mind does not progress towards jhāna ā€“ because of his lack of gladness. Actually there are quite plenty other straightforward references which do point in this direction.

I see it not seldom very much underestimated among Buddhists as one of the qualities responsible for the purification of virtue, higher stages of the path and general happiness ā€“ in some texts it is even given as a necessary ingredient.

Of course our general outlook and insight needs to be considered as well but I just wanted to give a small voice for seclusion in this thread generally, this also because of the bearing it has on me personally.

Mettā

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Bhante,
sparked and mirrored by what you wrote: I am not sure where I have read it ā€“ in the Visuddhimagga or the like but quite surely not in the Nikāyas ā€“ but I remember it as a Buddhist teaching about the stages of life that people in their fifties usually grow wise and just some donā€™t acquire it during that phase.

Thank you very much for this small voice on this topic bhante, it is very welcomed, at least for me. I know I want to try experiencing this physical seclusion for a while, but it is not easy to speak about it in most lay buddhist circles, it is not looked upon very wellā€¦
And Iā€™m not sure how easy it is for a western monk to live this kind of secluded life in the West or in Asia these days, so your testimony is showing me that it is still possibleā€¦ what a relief! :grin: :anjal:

Yes, I understand, I made some similar experiences.

Actually not substantially difficult in Asia (many places support this) but more difficult in the West generally for sure, according to my experience, if I may add this. Wilderness dwelling (which can be even comfortably arranged, with tent and oven etc.) is definitely a viable option too, especially in the West ā€¦ In any case, I wish you a truly fruitful and blissful time during your intended retreat. Hope I may ask: What have you planned to do, where and how long?

Mettā

I donā€™t want to be too off topic for this thread so Iā€™ll PM you my answer to your questions! :slight_smile:

Dear Bhante,
Do you happen to recall this specific refrerence and if so, can you point me to it please?

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Working the Dhamma lists.pdf (100.1 KB)

This is a PDF conversion of the spreadsheet I use.

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