Continuing the discussion from The choice of suffering vs love:
So for example when we love our only child then he/she died then we suffer my current view is it’s not love here that are being shown but attachment
For example when a mother loves her child I argue that this love is based on desire or what we call attachment, if the mother doesn’t love her child she wouldn’t raise him/her in the first place maybe because she desires a heir or the child intrigue her by his innocenness, I often see parents joke with their child it seems to me that the child being funny makes him/her desirable too, of course a child is what more strongly unites a new family which was previously weakly united by another form of desire called lust
I remember this vinaya story thus try to read it again
SuttaCentral
Saṁghabhedakakkhandhaka vinaya
On that occasion people had ascended their stilt houses and even their roofs. The foolish people with little faith and confidence said, “The elephant will hurt the handsome great ascetic.” But the wise people with faith and confidence said, “Soon the great man and the great elephant will meet in battle.”The Buddha then pervaded Nāḷāgiri with a mind of love. Feeling it, Nāḷāgiri lowered his trunk, went up to the Buddha, and stood in front of him. And while stroking Nāḷāgiri on the forehead with his right hand, the Buddha spoke these verses:
“Do not, elephant, attack a great man;
Painful it is to attack a great man.
For a killer of a great man,
The next rebirth is not good.Don’t be intoxicated or heedless,
For the heedless are not reborn well.
Only do those things
That will take you to a good rebirth.”Nāḷāgiri sucked the dust from the Buddha’s feet with his trunk and scattered it overhead. He then walked backwards while looking at the Buddha and returned to his own spot in the elephant stables. That is how tame Nāḷāgiri had become. On that occasion people chanted this verse:
“Some are tamed with sticks
And with goads and whips.
Without stick or sword,
The great sage tamed the elephant
for what I mean by attachment here are 2 suttas that shows that
Sn42.11
SuttaCentral>to
With Bhadraka
At one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Mallas, near the Mallian town called Uruvelakappa. Then Bhadraka the village chief went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:“Please, sir, teach me the origin and cessation of suffering.”
“Chief, if I were to teach you about the origin and ending of suffering in the past, saying ‘this is how it was in the past,’ you might have doubts or uncertainties about that. If I were to teach you about the origin and ending of suffering in the future, saying ‘this is how it will be in the future,’ you might have doubts or uncertainties about that. Rather, chief, I will teach you about the origin and ending of suffering as I am sitting right here and you are sitting right there. Listen and pay close attention, I will speak.”
“Yes, sir,” Bhadraka replied. The Buddha said this:
“What do you think, chief? Are there any people here in Uruvelakappa who, if they were executed, imprisoned, fined, or condemned, it would cause you sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress?”
“There are, sir.”
“But are there any people here in Uruvelakappa who, if they were executed, imprisoned, fined, or condemned, it would not cause you sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress?”
“There are, sir.”
“What’s the cause, chief, what’s the reason why, if this was to happen to some people it could cause you sorrow, while if it happens to others it does not?”
“The people regarding whom this would give rise to sorrow are those I desire and love. The people regarding whom this would not give rise to sorrow are those I don’t desire and love.”
“With this present phenomenon that is seen, known, immediate, attained, and fathomed, you may infer to the past and future: ‘All the suffering that arose in the past was rooted and sourced in desire. For desire is the root of suffering. All the suffering that will arise in the future will be rooted and sourced in desire. For desire is the root of suffering.’”
“It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing! How well said this was by the Buddha! ‘All the suffering that arises is rooted and sourced in desire. For desire is the root of suffering.’
I have a boy called Ciravāsi, who resides in a house away from here. I rise early and send someone, saying: ‘Go, my man, and check on my boy Ciravāsi.’ Until they get back I worry: ‘I hope nothing’s wrong with Ciravāsi!’”
“What do you think, chief? If Ciravāsi was executed, imprisoned, fined, or condemned, would it cause you sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress?”
“How could it not, sir?”
“This too is a way to understand: ‘All the suffering that arises is rooted and sourced in desire. For desire is the root of suffering.’
What do you think, chief? Before you’d seen or heard of Ciravāsi’s mother, did you have any desire or love or fondness for her?”
“No, sir.”
“Then was it because you saw or heard of her that you had desire or love or fondness for her?”
“Yes, sir.”
“What do you think, chief? If Ciravāsi’s mother was executed, imprisoned, fined, or condemned, would it cause you sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress?”
“How could it not, sir?”
“This too is a way to understand: ‘All the suffering that arises is rooted and sourced in desire. For desire is the root of suffering.’”
Here is another
SuttaCentral
Mn87
Born From the Beloved
So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.Now at that time a certain householder’s dear and beloved only child passed away. After their death he didn’t feel like working or eating. He would go to the cemetery and wail, “Where are you, my only child? Where are you, my only child?”
Then he went to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. The Buddha said to him, “Householder, you look like someone who’s not in their right mind; your faculties have deteriorated.”
“And how, sir, could my faculties not have deteriorated? For my dear and beloved only child has passed away. Since their death I haven’t felt like working or eating. I go to the cemetery and wail: ‘Where are you, my only child? Where are you, my only child?’”
“That’s so true, householder! That’s so true, householder! For our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.”
“Sir, who on earth could ever think such a thing! For our loved ones are a source of joy and happiness.” Disagreeing with the Buddha’s statement, rejecting it, he got up from his seat and left.
Now at that time several gamblers were playing dice not far from the Buddha. That householder approached them and told them what had happened.
“That’s so true, householder! That’s so true, householder! For our loved ones are a source of joy and happiness.”
Thinking, “The gamblers and I are in agreement,” the householder left.
Eventually that topic of discussion reached the royal compound. Then King Pasenadi addressed Queen Mallikā, “Mallika, your ascetic Gotama said this: ‘Our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.’”
“If that’s what the Buddha said, great king, then that’s how it is.”
“No matter what the ascetic Gotama says, Mallikā agrees with him: ‘If that’s what the Buddha said, great king, then that’s how it is.’ You’re just like a student who agrees with everything their teacher says. Go away, Mallikā, get out of here!”
Then Queen Mallikā addressed the brahmin Nāḷijaṅgha, “Please, brahmin, go to the Buddha, and in my name bow with your head to his feet. Ask him if he is healthy and well, nimble, strong, and living comfortably. And then say: ‘Sir, did the Buddha make this statement: “Our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress”?’ Remember well how the Buddha answers and tell it to me. For Realized Ones say nothing that is not so.”
“Yes, ma’am,” he replied. He went to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha, “Master Gotama, Queen Mallikā bows with her head to your feet. She asks if you are healthy and well, nimble, strong, and living comfortably. And she asks whether the Buddha made this statement: ‘Our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.’”
“That’s right, brahmin, that’s right! For our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.
And here’s a way to understand how our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. Once upon a time right here in Sāvatthī a certain woman’s mother passed away. And because of that she went mad and lost her mind. She went from street to street and from square to square saying, ‘Has anyone seen my mother? Has anyone seen my mother?’
And here’s another way to understand how our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.
Once upon a time right here in Sāvatthī a certain woman’s father … brother … sister … son … daughter … husband passed away. And because of that she went mad and lost her mind. She went from street to street and from square to square saying, ‘Has anyone seen my husband? Has anyone seen my husband?’
And here’s another way to understand how our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.
Once upon a time right here in Sāvatthī a certain man’s mother … father … brother … sister … son … daughter … wife passed away. And because of that he went mad and lost his mind. He went from street to street and from square to square saying, ‘Has anyone seen my wife? Has anyone seen my wife?’
And here’s another way to understand how our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.
Once upon a time right here in Sāvatthī a certain woman went to live with her relative’s family. But her relatives wanted to divorce her from her husband and give her to another, who she didn’t want. So she told her husband about this. But he cut her in two and disemboweled himself, thinking, ‘We shall be together after death.’ That’s another way to understand how our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.”
Then Nāḷijaṅgha the brahmin, having approved and agreed with what the Buddha said, got up from his seat, went to Queen Mallikā, and told her of all they had discussed. Then Queen Mallikā approached King Pasenadi and said to him, “What do you think, great king? Do you love Princess Vajirī?”
“Indeed I do, Mallikā.”
“What do you think, great king? If she were to decay and perish, would sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress arise in you?”
“If she were to decay and perish, my life would fall apart. How could sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress not arise in me?”
“This is what the Buddha was referring to when he said: ‘Our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.’
What do you think, great king? Do you love Lady Vāsabhā? …
Do you love your son, General Viḍūḍabha? …
Do you love me?”
“Indeed I do love you, Mallikā.”
“What do you think, great king? If I were to decay and perish, would sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress arise in you?”
“If you were to decay and perish, my life would fall apart. How could sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress not arise in me?”
“This is what the Buddha was referring to when he said: ‘Our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.’
What do you think, great king? Do you love the realms of Kāsi and Kosala?”
“Indeed I do, Mallikā. It’s due to the bounty of Kāsi and Kosala that we use sandalwood imported from Kāsi and wear garlands, perfumes, and makeup.”
“What do you think, great king? If these realms were to decay and perish, would sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress arise in you?”
“If they were to decay and perish, my life would fall apart. How could sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress not arise in me?”
“This is what the Buddha was referring to when he said: ‘Our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.’”
“It’s incredible, Mallikā, it’s amazing, how far the Buddha sees with penetrating wisdom, it seems to me. Come, Mallikā, rinse my hands.”
Then King Pasenadi got up from his seat, arranged his robe over one shoulder, knelt on his right knee, raised his joined palms toward the Buddha, and expressed this heartfelt sentiment three times:
“Homage to that Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha!
Homage to that Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha!
Homage to that Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha!”
What do you think is the difference between love and attachment ?
Do you think I have wrong view here ?
Thanks