I am a bit confused about the concept of rebirth, where according to what Buddha taught, there is no spirit that moves from one body to a new body. But I often hear dharma talks where there are depictions of peta beings and deities in the kamaloka who are told to be the same exact beings as those from previous lives. For example, if there are families who offer foods and pray them at home it is said that the deceased family member in the peta realm/deva realm sometime visits the family. This shows that hungry ghost and deity who has been reborn are still the exact same people (same as they were in previous life). But in some other explanations and if i look at what happens in my live as humans now, then i realize we are generally not the exact same person as the being in our previous life. At least, we donāt remember our previous lives, unless we reach a certain level due to meditation practice.
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Yes, there are aspects of a living being (satta) that persist through the process of rebirthāmemories, cravings, habits, behaviors, and tendencies to assume certain bodily forms. But this is not the same as saying that there is a self (atta) that continues after death. The persistence of these components are conditioned and require specific causes to be carried over from one life to another. The main condition for this continuation is craving. Without such conditions, these elements would simply fade away, as there is nothing permanent in them, nor anything permanent controlling them.
Some beings are able to recall parts of their previous lives without the aid of meditation. This is relatively common among subtle or āinvisibleā beings, such as petas and devas. However, their recollection is far from perfect and is usually limited to the kammas that conditioned their current rebirth, as well as to aspects of their past existences to which they were most strongly attached.
Iāve never read the Buddha taught there is no self subject to rebirth. The suttas I have read all say ābeingsā are reborn and ābeingsā are heirs to their actions. Even suttas that identify a person, such as MN 143, have the same person reborn.
"This teaching on anatta does not deny the continuity of becoming, nor the existence of a conventional identity across lifetimes. It also does not reject the notion of kammic inheritance throughout Samsara. Rather, it emphasizes that, at a deeper level, such identity is illusory and lacks any solid or substantial foundation. There is continuity between beings and their former livesāthis continuity is recognizable across lifetimes and is linked to the continuity of kammaābut there is no fundamental self being carried over from one life to the next.
SN5.10 the simile of the Chariot talks about the term ābeingā used in a conventional way.
About the use of conventional language by the Buddha to describe rebirth and other phenomena:
There are some suttas that talk about anatta in a very clear way:
SN12.12- It is not fitting to say who contacts/ feels/ conscientizes/ cravesā¦ .
SN12.17- suffering is not made by oneself neither by another. Suffering is a process that arises because of causes and conditions.
SN12.20:
When a noble disciple has clearly seen with right wisdom this dependent origination and these dependently originated phenomena as they are, it is quite impossible for them to turn back to the past, thinking: āDid I exist in the past? Did I not exist in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? After being what, what did I become in the past?ā Or to turn forward to the future, thinking: āWill I exist in the future? Will I not exist in the future? What will I be in the future? How will I be in the future? After being what, what will I become in the future?ā Or to be undecided about the present, thinking: āAm I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? This sentient beingāwhere did it come from? And where will it go?ā Why is that?
These suttas may refer to anatta but they do not say anatta is reborn. SN 12.17 only says suffering is caused by ignorance rather than by a self.
SN 5.10 says āa beingā is a theory (view) & convention. SN 5.10 says this is just a pile of conditions, you wonāt find a being here. SN 5.10 is not about rebirth. Rebirth occurs to ābeingsā hindered by ignorance & fettered by craving.
Is it being suggested the text quoted above is about rebirth; that there rebirth in the past & future but no identification with those rebirths? I doubt this is the meaning of this text, found in many places, such as MN 2 and MN 38. This text is about the absence of self view, therefore the absence of speculative views about the past & the future. To the contrary, those ābeingsā hindered by ignorance & fettered by craving are created by self-view, which is the reason those ābeingsā are born/reborn. Those that have realised anatta are not reborn. The hungry ghosts and devas have not realised anatta, which is why they are reborn.
This text is not strictly about rebirth. But when a noble disciple contemplates the arising and ceasing of phenomenaāprimarily the five aggregatesāwhether in the present moment, through recollection of the past (in this life or in previous lives), or even by reflecting on possible future behavior, they donāt think in terms of āI,ā āmine,ā or āmyself.ā They regard these phenomena as not-self, and they do not identify with anything within or beyond them.
My statements about non-self fully accept the processes of kamma and rebirth. What Iām trying to do is talk about these topics without invoking the idea of a self. Iām deliberately avoiding questions like:
Who or what is reborn?
Who or what performs actions?
Who or what receives the results of actions?
That said, discussions on anattÄ can be quite advanced. Some may misuse these teachings in ways that undermine the proper understanding of kamma and rebirth. In such cases, it might be more beneficial to focus on the importance of generosity and wholesome actions for securing favorable rebirthsāand leave deeper reflections on anattÄ for a more suitable time.
Understanding what the five aggregates are and how they arise is the starting point for grasping these teachings on rebirth.
Letās not forget that itās possible to gain good results and benefits by living in accordance with the principles of kamma and rebirthāeven without a full understanding of anattÄ. Deeper understandings come with timeāafter some practice, investigation, and good interactions with fellow practitioners.
For humans, the majority do not remember their past lives. Yes, I know there are people who do remember without the aid of meditation, but that is a rare case. At least in my neighborhood, there is no one who can remember their past lives.
Why do I ask this. Because as far as I have studied and proven myself, the way i understand anatta, because it is proven that the majority of people in the world do not remember their past lives. Letās assume in previous life, we live in China, but this live we born in a family who stay in France. Most people born in France canāt speak Chinese even though they may have been a chinese person in previous life. Yes, it might affect their learning process, where when they learn Chinese, they have a tendency to learn it faster than the average person. But this proves that with this human rebirth, it means that at least the five kandha, especially perception (sanna) and memories is no longer exactly the same as what we have in previous life, which also means that this person is definitely not the exact same person as the being in his previous life, although of course there would be many tendencies, habits, behavior, preferences that have been transmitted from the previous life in this life.
Thatās why Iām a little a bit confused when there are depictions of the rebirth of petas and devas who are described as still having the exact identity that make me think that they still have the exact same five kandhas from their previous lives. This make it hard to understand the concept of anatta, no wonder there are a lot of people believe there is an eternal spirit that moves from one body to another body, or some considered it as wandering spirits (have no body).
Thanks a lot for the quotes. It help me to understand more
One important thing to consider is that most or all devas and petas are (said to be - no idea if this is a late systemisation) spontaneously-born rather than born from a parent. They begin their lives conscious and fully-grown rather than their form and consciousness developing gradually like in womb or egg-born beings, so itās possible that this makes it a lot harder them to lose the memories of their past life (though not impossible, as seen with Baka Brahma in MN49 and SN6.4).
This is detailed in MN12 (petas are not explicitly named but can potentially be inferred from ācertain beings in the lower realmsā - the word used is vinipÄtikÄ) - though admittedly I had to look up the source.
Weirdly, ācertain humansā are said to be able to perform spontaneous reproduction alongside naraka residents, devas and vinipÄtikÄā¦ early Buddhist cloning?
The suttas are clear what is reborn, which is the sense of āa beingā (āsattaā) born from attachment. Every sutta on rebirth, such as MN 136 about kamma or MN 4 about the Three Knowledges, says ābeingsā (āsattanamā) are reborn.
Anatta is not related to rebirth. Anatta is supramundane. Rebirth is mundane. Anatta is not related to this topic.
Yes, indeed.
The five aggregates is another supramundane subject & not related to the teachings of rebirth. Rebirth is related to the teachings about good & bad kamma. Rebirth suttas such as MN 135 & MN 136 do not mention the five aggregates.
There is a dhamma talk by Ajahn Sona where he explains that humans do not remember their previous lives because the human birth is a complicated, spending nine months in the womb and up to three years before even learning how to talk few. In other words, human birth is traumatic in a way that does not support remembering past lives.
Another thing to consider is other niyamas at play in other realm. For example, in the human realm, bija niyama and utu niyama seem to be connected in a way that differs from other realms. Devas do not experience aging, but humans do following seasonal changing, hence human aging is akin to āautumnā where tree leaves become brittle. Probably, human females have periods for similar reasons - hence the Buddha taught that the mother has to be āin seasonā for conception to take place. On the other hand, nymphs in the heaven do not have period because they do not give birth through the womb - but reborn spontaneously.
When you take these factors into consideration, you might see that there is more to memory than the historical linearity that gets interrupted through being reborn in a different realm. It also becomes no wonder that most of the cases we have of humans remembering past lives follow the historical linearity on planet earth - as if their cognition of the present life have catches up with the progress humans made in their past lives.
When the above is acknowledged, there might be other uses of what beings in other realms represent. For example, the portrayal of petas as never getting satisfied from food - when accompanied with offering food to them to generate merit might cause us to rethink the viability of the whole business of making merit. When we are told that devas do not age or get sick, or the nymphs do not have period, we could take that as appreciating the human realm as a precious opportunity to practice and get released.
