IF or ONLY IF: the logic behind Dependent Arising

Introduction

When the Buddha of the early text teaches Dependent Arising, he often uses an underlying principle called ‘conditionality’ (idappaccayatā, which I prefer to translate as ‘dependency’, for reasons that will become clear). He clarifies this principle with four statements:

  • Imasmiṃ sati, idaṃ hoti.
  • Imass’uppādā, idaṃ uppajjati.
  • Imasmiṃ asati, idaṃ na hoti.
  • Imassa nirodhā, idaṃ nirujjhati.

I translate these as:

  • Only if there is this, will there be that.
  • Because this arises, that arises.
  • If there isn’t this, there won’t be that.
  • When this ceases, that will cease.

This essay focuses on the first statement: “Only if there is this, will there be that.” Most translations of this statement lack “only”. For instance, Venerable Bodhi has: “When this exists, that comes to be.”[1] I will show that this translation causes various problems when it is applied to the specific links of Dependent Arising. These problems all stem from the Buddha inadvertently committing logical fallacies, which are avoided when we include “only”.

This is purely a theoretical issue, not a pragmatic one, so please keep in mind that I approach the matter from a very limited angle here. Actual insights into Dependent Arising are not mere logical theories and are much deeper, and on another level, than the following discussion. I say this because the following discussing will not be for everybody, and these technical matters do not need to be understood in order to understand the Dhamma. However, for many Buddhists their first approach to the Dhamma is theoretical, and textual interpretation always has a theoretical side to it, even for the fully enlightened. And on this level the inclusion of “only” does make a meaningful difference.

My explanation relies on some logical principles, which I shall explain first.[2] If this section is too complicated, it can probably be skipped without missing my main message. However, I encourage the interested reader to take it slow and try to understand these matters.

The logic of “if”

Translations of imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti such as “when this exists, that comes to be” are sometimes taken to be temporal statements, specifically concerned with the present moment. But the statement describes a more general principle, one that applies across time. The word “when” has the meaning of “if” here.[3] “When this exists, that comes to be” forms a conditional statement.

In logical notation, conditional statements are often written with an arrow symbol, such as this →︎ that. Instead of this and that, the variables P and Q are commonly used:

  • P →︎ Q

This can be read aloud as “if P, then Q” (or alternatively as “P implies Q”).

For a concrete example, we best take something outside of Dependent Arising first. So let P = “it is Saturday” and Q = “it is a weekend”. For P →︎ Q we get:

  • If it is Saturday, then it is a weekend. (Or, it being Saturday implies it is a weekend.)

The Buddha never meant the principle of dependency to be applied to things such as these, but it serves to illustrate the logic.

From P →︎ Q, we can make two valid inferences:

  • P, therefore Q
  • not Q, therefore not P

For example, from “if it is Saturday, then it is a weekend”, we can correctly say the following about a given day of the week:

  • It is Saturday. Therefore, it is a weekend.
  • It is not a weekend. Therefore, it is not Saturday.

These two forms of valid arguments are respectively called modus ponens and modus tollens. (Old terms which have stuck around. They are Latin for “the way of affirmation” and “the way of denial”.)

From P →︎ Q we can also draw two invalid inferences:

  • Q, therefore P
  • not P, therefore not Q

For example:

  • It is a weekend. Therefore, it is Saturday.
  • It is not Saturday. Therefore, it is not a weekend.

Both inferences are false, which in this case we can see clearly, because the day in question could also be a Sunday.

These two fallacies are respectively called affirming the consequent and denying the antecedent. The consequent is Q, the antecedent P, which are respectively affirmed and denied in the premise, the part before “therefore”.

These fallacies are surprisingly easy to commit when the topic becomes more abstract. So before we turn to Dependent Arising, to further get the principle across let P = “it rains” and Q = “there are clouds”. For P →︎ Q we get:

  • If it rains, there are clouds.

Which of the following inferences are valid and which are not?

  • It rains. Therefore, there are clouds.
  • There are no clouds. Therefore, there is no rain.
  • There are clouds. Therefore, it rains.
  • It does not rain. Therefore, there are no clouds.

The first two inferences are valid. They are respectively modus ponens and modus tollens. The last two are invalid. They are respectively affirming the consequent and denying the antecedent.

To foreshadow what’s to come: I will argue that under the standard translations of imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti, the Buddha effectively commits the two fallacies. But when “only” is included, he uses the two valid inferences.

We can also say that P →︎ Q signifies that P is a sufficient condition for Q. This means that if we have P, we will always have Q. The occurrence of P is sufficient (is enough) for the occurrence of Q.

In our examples, if it is Saturday, it is always a weekend. So it being Saturday is a sufficient condition for it being a weekend. Likewise, if it rains, there are always clouds. So rain is a sufficient condition for clouds.

A necessary condition, on the other hand, is something that is needed or required for another thing. For example, fuel is a necessary condition for fire, because without fuel, no fire can exist. However, fuel is not a sufficient condition for fire, because fuel can exist without causing a fire.

In P →︎ Q (if P, then Q), the antecedent P is not required for the consequent Q. Logically speaking, Q could also come about through something other than P. For example, it could additionally be the case that R →︎ Q. Therefore, P is not a necessary condition for Q.

In our examples, it being a weekend is not a necessary condition for Saturday, because on Sunday it is a weekend as well. And rain is not a necessary condition for clouds, because there can also be clouds when it does not rain.

To put this in other words, it being a weekend does not depend on it being Saturday, and clouds do not depend on rain. Generally, in “if P, then Q” the consequent Q does not depend on the antecedent P.

My argument for the inclusion of “only” hinges on the distinction between these two types of conditions. What did the Buddha mean by imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti? Is this a necessary condition for that, or is this a sufficient condition for that? Put differently, is that dependent on this, or is it not?

The statement imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti is sometimes seen as a statement of sufficiency of this for that. This is largely if not solely based on translations that omit “only”.[4] More often, the logical principle behind the statement is correctly understood to be that of necessity, but such translations are left unchallenged.[5] In some cases the statement is even paraphrased with the inclusion of “only” to explain what it means, but when it is translated, “only” is still omitted![6] I think some logical problems are unrecognized or else glossed over, even in the latter case.

The problems with “if”

When imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti is translated as “if (or when) this exists, then there will be that”, it indicates that this is a sufficient condition for that. Grammatically this is possible, but it creates conceptual problems when applied to Dependent Arising. (By “Dependent Arising” I specifically mean the Buddha’s teachings on the origination of suffering, not the general principle of dependency that underlies it.)[7]

The most common exposition of Dependent Arising has twelve factors:

PaliTranslated here asAlso known as
1 Avijjā Ignorance
2 Saṅkhārā Willful actions Formations
3 Viññāṇa Consciousness
4 Nāmarūpa Immaterial aspects and body Name and form
5 Saḷāyatana The six senses The six sense bases
6 Phassa Sense impression Contact
7 Vedanā Sensation Feeling
8 Taṇhā Craving
9 Upādāna Taking up (also means ‘fuel’) Grasping/clinging
10 Bhava Existence Becoming
11 Jāti Birth
12 Jarāmaraṇa Old age and death

The Buddha links each subsequent factor with the preceding one: he links old age and death to birth; birth to existence; and so forth until ignorance. In doing so, he uses the principle of dependency with its four statements.

With all that in place, I can now illustrate some of the problems that arise when the first statement is translated with “if” instead of “only if”. For sake of argument, I treat the links in a mixed order and combine some of them together.

  • “If there are sensations, there will be craving.” Remember, this means that if there are sensations, there will always be craving. Sensations would be a sufficient condition for craving. This is incorrect, because enlightened beings still experience sensations, but they have no more craving.[8] Also, even before enlightenment there can be sensations without craving, like in deep states of meditation.
  • “If there is birth, there will be old age and death.” Birth does always leads to death, indeed. But since it is possible to die young, it does not always lead to old age[9] (which is defined as having gray hear, wrinkled skin, etc.)[10]
  • “If there is craving and consequent taking up, there will be a continuation of existence and consequent birth.” This is false, since you may have craving today but get enlightened tomorrow, after which you will not be reborn. So not all craving is sufficient for rebirth.[11] Even existence is not a sufficient condition for birth. An enlightened being is still in a state of existence but does not get reborn.[12] Also, according to one discourse there are non-returners who will still obtain existence but not rebirth.[13] They get fully extinguished in “the in-between”, meaning after death but before taking a proper birth. So for them too, existence is not sufficient for birth.
  • “If there is ignorance and consequent willful actions, there will be consciousness.” The reasoning of the previous point applies here as well.[14] If ignorance always leads to the rearising of consciousness—which means, if ignorance is a sufficient condition for rebirth—then enlightened beings would also get reborn, since they also had ignorance earlier in life.
  • “If there is consciousness, there will be the immaterial aspects and body (nāmarūpa); and if there are the immaterial aspects and body, there will be consciousness.” The mutual conditioning between these two factors is not part of the standard twelvefold exposition, but it is mentioned in a handful of discourses.[15] With this translation, the two factors would keep each other going, being mutually sufficient. No other factors would be required for their continuance. Even if there were no ignorance and willful actions, consciousness would still lead to nāmarūpa and nāmarūpa to consciousness. It should also be noted that whenever their mutual conditioning is mentioned, the prior factors of ignorance and willful actions are not included in the analysis. Instead of ignorance, nāmarūpa and consciousness are at the base of the chain of factors. If they were sufficient conditions, this would be problematic, because then they would inadvertently set off the rest of the chain including further birth. But even enlightened beings still have consciousness and nāmarūpa.
  • “If there are the six senses, there will be sense impressions and consequent sensations.” Usually this is the case, but not always. During the attainment of cessation (saññāvedayitanirodha), there are still sense faculties, yet no sensations.[16] One discourse also says: “If the internal sense of sight is intact, but no external sight comes within its scope, and there is no corresponding engagement there, then the corresponding section of consciousness [and hence sensation] does not arise.”[17] This is repeated for the other five senses. So there can be the six senses, yet no sensations. This means the senses are not sufficient for sensations. (Not in every moment, at least. One can argue that the six senses will eventually always lead to sensations. But that argument would be more complicated than simply including “only”, which avoids the problem in the first place, as we’ll see.)
  • “If there is ignorance, there will be willful actions.” It is implied that the willful actions are always deluded ones. I think ignorance is indeed sufficient for such actions, so this statement is not wrong in itself. However, this translation technically allows for completely different sufficient conditions to also lead to willful actions. Logically, we could accept the statement and still say: “If there is no ignorance, there will also be willful actions.” This is clearly not the Buddha’s idea when he says willful actions are dependent on ignorance.

The last problem applies to all other links as well. In each case, different sufficient conditions could lead to the same result.[18] Let’s take “If there is birth, there will be old age and death.” This does not prevent anyone from concluding: “If there is no birth, there will still be old age and death.” Of course, this conclusion makes little sense in real life, but I’m just pointing out the logical issue with the standard translation. It may be more relevant in the statement: “If there is existence [continuing from a past life], there will be birth.” Materialists would argue that there is birth if there is no continuation from a prior existence. In doing so, they would, logically speaking, not contradict the Buddha’s statement, when translated without “only”. Yet, one purpose of Dependent Arising is precisely to counter the materialistic worldview. It is one of the “extremes” that Dependent Arising avoids.[19] So we can expect the Buddha to phrase things in a way that leaves no room for the materialists.

For these examples, I adopted the common multiple-lifetime interpretation of Dependent Arising, which I explained in depth elsewhere.[20] The specific interpretation of the links is irrelevant to my main point, however. Similar issues will exist for other interpretations. What I’m getting is the translation of imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti, not the interpretation of the links.

The examples I gave are all just symptoms of a deeper problem. The standard translation that omits “only” inadvertently leads the Buddha to make fundamental logical fallacies. This can be illustrated with any of the links, but when the Buddha explained his own insights into Dependent Arising, he often started at old age and death. This is also one of the links that is easiest to understand, so let us start there as well. For a translation without “only”, the first step in the Buddha’s analysis would be as follows:

From this analysis, the Buddha derives the existence of birth. By this I mean, he does not simply conclude that old age and death depend on birth. He also concludes that, since there in fact is old age and death, there must be birth. That is to say, there must be a birth preceding all old age and death. This conclusion is rather trivial in this case, but the Buddha does the same for all other links, working his way back to ignorance. He concludes that, since there is birth, there must have been prior existence, and so forth until ignorance.

We can phrase the logical reasoning as follows, with the usual translation that omits “only”:

  • If there is birth, there will be old age and death.
  • There is old age and death.
  • Therefore, there is (or was) birth.

This argument may seem valid, because its premises and conclusion appear correct. (Although the first premise is actually false, since birth does not always lead to old age.) However, an argument can be invalid even if its premises and conclusion are correct. In this case, the Buddha commits the logical fallacy of affirming the consequent. It’s like saying:

  • If it is Saturday, it is a weekend.
  • It is a weekend.
  • Therefore, it is Saturday.

Today may indeed be Saturday, in which case it would also be a weekend. The premises and conclusion would be correct. But the argument is still fallacious, since the premises do not necessarily lead to the conclusion. Logically, it could also be Sunday.

We encounter similar logical problems in the analysis of the cessation sequence. From the dependency of old age and death on birth, the Buddha concludes: “If there is no birth, there will be no old age and death.” This conclusion is correct by itself. However, to derive it from the usual translation of the origination statement is to commit the fallacy of denying the antecedent:

  • If there is birth, there will be old age and death.
  • There is no (future) birth.
  • Therefore, there will be no (future) old age and death.

This is like forgetting about Sunday again:

  • If it is Saturday, it is a weekend.
  • It is not Saturday.
  • Therefore, it is not a weekend.

Did the Buddha really commit such basic logical fallacies? I do not think so.

The logic of “only if”

Luckily, the problem can be remedied very easily. We can take imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti to be a statement of necessity instead of sufficiency. Necessity is what the entire principle behind Dependent Arising amounts to in the first place. If something depends on another thing, it means that it is necessary for it. It does not a mean that it is always sufficient for it.

Daily-life uses of the word ‘dependent’ (paṭicca) illustrate this as well. For example, it is said that the body is dependent on food and will die without it.[22] Food is not a sufficient condition for the body’s continuance; it is just a necessary condition for it. Otherwise people who eat would never die. In context of Dependent Arising itself, it is said that fire is dependent on fuel.[23] Fuel is necessary for fire, but not sufficient. Other conditions, like oxygen and heat, also need to be present. Another discourse likewise says that the burning of an oil lamp is dependent on (paṭicca) oil and a wick.[24]

In order to convey the idea of necessity, we should translate imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti as “only if there is this, will there be that”. The addition of the single word “only” completely changes the meaning. Suppose I say, “If it is cold, it snows.” This means it always snows whenever it is cold. But if I say, “Only if it is cold, it snows”, then it just means that it needs to be cold in order for it to snow.

I suggest to translate the Buddha’s analysis as follows:

When such a translation is applied to all the links, the earlier problems disappear:

  • “Only if there are sensations, will there be craving.” While this is perhaps a superfluous statement in and of itself,[25] it is correct. When we don’t experience anything, we also cannot crave anything.
  • “Only if there is birth, will there be old age and death.” Indeed, only when we are born, can we get old and die. We may die young, but if we do get old, then it only happens because we were born.
  • “Only if there is craving and consequent taking up, will there be a continuation of existence and hence birth.” With the inclusion of “only” it is no longer the case that all craving leads to rebirth, even craving just before enlightenment. Instead, now craving is just a requirement for rebirth to happen after death. So even if you have craving today, you will still not get reborn if you abandon it tomorrow.
  • “Only if there is ignorance and consequent willful actions, will there be consciousness (rearising in a next life).” The idea is the same as the previous point. You only get reborn if there is ignorance, not when there is no ignorance.
  • “Only if there is consciousness, will there be the immaterial aspects and body; and only if there are the immaterial aspects and body, will there be consciousness.” Now these two factors are no longer self-sufficient. There is room for ignorance and willful actions to also be required for their continuance. This mutual dependency between the two factors is illustrated with a simile of two bundles of reeds that lean against one another.[26] The idea is that one bundle can stand only if the other stands; not that if one stands, the other also stands automatically. One bundle standing is not sufficient for the other to stand, but it is necessary. The commentaries call this ‘mutual dependency’ (or ‘interdependence’, aññamañña-paccayatā).
  • “Only if there are the six senses, will there be sense impressions and consequent sensations.” This is correct. If there are no senses, we cannot experience any sensations.
  • “Only if there is ignorance, will there be willful actions.” With this translation there can no longer be different conditions that also lead to willful actions. If willful actions happen only if there is ignorance, logically they cannot also happen when there is no ignorance.

The last principle applies to all other links as well. Because all are phrased as necessary conditions, there can be no other, independent conditions that lead to the same results. For example, “only if there is existence [continuing from a past life], will there be birth” leaves no room for anybody to say: “If there is no existence [continuing from a past life], there is also birth.”

The principle of necessity must be what the Buddha had in mind. If not, it would defeat the entire purpose of the origination sequence. Then there could logically be numerous independent conditions that result in any of the twelve factors, so that in the end, suffering could arise from something other than ignorance.

In sum, the inclusion of “only” creates a statement of necessity rather than sufficiency. Two problems are thereby avoided: the preceding factors of Dependent Arising no longer always lead to the subsequent ones in each and every case; and there can no longer be other, independent factors that lead to the same results.


In essence, that is all I wish to get across. But for sake of comprehensiveness, we can return to the logical principles of modus ponens and modus tollens. With the translation “only if”, the Buddha actually uses these two valid inferences. In order to explain this, I have to introduce another logical principle, which says that sufficiency and necessity are dual to one another. That is to say, if P is a sufficient condition for Q, then Q is a necessary condition for P.

In logical notation, we can simply turn things around:

  • P →︎ Q
  • Q ←︎ P

We can read this as:

  • if P, then Q
  • only if Q, then P

Because of this equivalence, the statement P →︎ Q itself is also read aloud as “P only if Q”. Logically, this means the exact same as “if P, then Q” and “P implies Q”.[27]

This principle can be unintuitive in the abstract, so let’s apply it to our examples. “If it rains, there are clouds” is logically equivalent to “it rains only if there are clouds”. And “if it is Saturday, it is a weekend” is equivalent to “it is Saturday only if it is a weekend”. In each case, the transformed “only if” statements are clearly true. Logically, they convey the same information as the original “if” statements.

The same applies to Dependent Arising. We can rephrase “only if there is birth, will there be old age and death” as “if there is old age and death, there (earlier) was birth”. The Buddha doesn’t literally say this in the suttas, but with this transformation, it is more apparent how the logic behind the origination sequence is effectively a modus ponens:

  • If there is old age and death, there was birth.
  • There is old age and death.
  • Therefore, there was (earlier) birth.

The idea is more general than current old age & death and earlier birth. It applies to old age & death and birth in general, across time. But the basic logic for the general case would be the same.

The same logic also applies to all the following links. In full, the Buddha’s analysis of origination can be written as follows:

  • old age and death →︎ birth →︎ existence →︎ taking up →︎ craving →︎ sensations →︎ sense impressions →︎ six senses →︎ immaterial aspects and body →︎ consciousness →︎ willful actions →︎ ignorance

This analysis starts at old age and death and works its way back to ignorance. But because of the equivalence of P →︎ Q and Q ←︎ P, we can turn the order around:

  • ignorance ←︎ willful actions ←︎ consciousness ←︎ immaterial aspects and body ←︎ six senses ←︎ sense impressions ←︎ sensations ←︎ craving ←︎ taking up ←︎ existence ←︎ birth ←︎ old age and death

The arrows here probably point the other way than you would have expected. But try not to think of them as indicating the direction of causality. A certain causality is implied, but it is not indicated by the direction of the arrows. Again, in logical notation Q ←︎ P just means “only if Q, then P”. This logic could also apply to things like weekends and Saturdays, where there is no meaningful causal connection between the two. So the above sequence is simply saying: “Only if there is ignorance, will there be willful actions. [And so on until:] Only if there is birth, will there be old age and death.”

Instead of saying “only if Q, then P”, we can also say “dependent on Q, is P” (or “P depends on Q”). This is just another way to convey the same necessary condition. For example, “only if there are clouds, it rains” means the same as “dependent on clouds, is rain”. Because of this, the Buddha usually summarized the origination sequence as follows:

Now for the cessation sequence. Remember that “only if there is birth, will there be old age and death” is equivalent to “if there is old age and death, there (earlier) was birth”. Since the latter has the form P →︎ Q, we can apply modus tollens to it. The Buddha’s realization of his ending of future old age and death is, logically speaking, based on this principle:

  • If there is to be more old age and death, there must be more birth.
  • There will be no more birth.
  • Therefore, there will be no more old age and death.

Combining the last two points, the Buddha says: “If there is no birth, there will be no old age and death.”

We can also put this as, “no birth →︎ no old age and death”. And we can do the same for all preceding links:

  • no ignorance →︎ no willful actions →︎ no consciousness →︎ no immaterial aspects and body →︎ no six senses →︎ no sense impressions →︎ no sensations →︎ no craving →︎ no taking up →︎ no existence →︎ no birth →︎ no old age and death

The Buddha therefore summarized:

As a last logical step, we can also combine all the link together. There is a logical principle called the hypothetical syllogism, which says: “If P implies Q, and Q implies R, then P implies R.” This lets us skip over the immediate factor Q and jump right from P to R:

  • P →︎ Q
  • Q →︎ R
  • Therefore, P →︎ R

This principle is quite intuitive in real life. To expand our examples:

  • If it is the day after Friday, it is Saturday.
  • If it is Saturday, it is a weekend.
  • Therefore, if it is the day after Friday, it is a weekend.

And:

  • If the streams start flowing, it rains.
  • If it rains, there are clouds.
  • Therefore, if the streams start flowing, there are clouds.

We are not limited to skipping just one single step. In case of Dependent Arising, we can skip straight from old age and death to ignorance:

  • old age and death →︎ birth
  • birth →︎ existence
  • [and so on until:]
  • willful actions →︎ ignorance
  • Therefore, old age and death →︎ ignorance

To put this conclusion in ordinary language: “There will be (future) old age and death, only if there is ignorance.” This is what the Buddha concluded as well:

By virtue of modus tollens, we can now conclude: “If there is no ignorance, there will be no old age and death.” This is, of course, the entire idea of the twelvefold sequence of Dependent Arising:

Few Buddhists would disagree with this conclusion. But my point is, with the usual translation of imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti, none of this logically works. We have to include “only”.

Translating as “only if”

One important question remains to be answered. Is it linguistically possible to translate imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti as “only if there is this, will there be that”?

In short, yes. The clause imasmiṃ sati is a locative absolute, which Wijesekera explains can “signify a condition that exists or should exist for the fulfillment of the main action, which may be rendered by such expressions as ‘if, on condition, provided that’ etc.”[30] By “a condition that exists or should exist”, Wijesekera means the locative absolute can signify a sufficient or necessary condition. The latter can be indicated with “provided that”, as Wijesekera suggests, but also with “only if”.

The root issue is that the distinction between the English “if” and “only if” does not exist in Pali.[31] The locative absolute can mean either, depending on context. However, the context of Dependent Arising requires the latter. It requires imasmiṃ sati to indicate a necessary condition. As Jayatilleke also concluded: “B does not occur unless A is present and occurs only when A is present.”[32]


The astute reader may wonder whether the negative statement—imasmiṃ asati idaṃ na hoti—should also be translated with “only”. But here the inclusion of “only” would be a mistake.

The principle of contraposition (which is closely related to modus tollens) allows us to make an immediate inference from P →︎ Q (i.e. from Q ←︎ P), namely:

  • Q ←︎ P
  • therefore, no Q →︎ no P

For example:

  • Only if there are clouds, there is rain.
  • Therefore, if there are no clouds, there is no rain.

If we instead concluded, “only if there are no clouds, there is no rain”, we would again omit the possibility of rainless yet cloudy days.

In case of Dependent Arising, we can say:

  • Only if there is birth, will there be old age and death.
  • Therefore, if there is no birth, there will be no old age and death.

Again, this inference would not be valid for translations that omit “only” from the first statement. From “if there is birth, there will be old age and death” we cannot infer “if there is no birth, there will be no old age and death”. This would be confusing sufficiency and necessity, which I don’t think the Buddha was doing.

The logic of “because”

If imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti is about necessity, then so should be the second statement of dependency: imassa uppādā idaṃ uppajjati, “because this arises, that arises”. If we construct an analogous statement for our example, we see that this is indeed the case:

  • Because clouds form, rain happens.

This does not mean that clouds are a sufficient condition for rain, that it always rains when there are clouds. It means that rain only happens because there is a formation of clouds. The occurrence of rain depends on the occurrence of clouds.

As for Dependent Arising:

  • Because birth arises, old age and death arise.

This means old age and death happen only because birth happened first. So this is again a statement of necessity, not sufficiency.

Causality and “only if”

The term idappaccayatā has also been translated as ‘conditionality’. This is fine, but I prefer ‘dependency’, partly because ‘conditionality’ could imply both sufficient and necessary conditions. Dependent Arising is primarily concerned with the latter, which I feel is better reflected by ‘dependency’. In addition, this translation preserves the linguistic connection with ‘Dependent Arising’ (paṭicca-samuppāda). The words paccaya and paṭicca both come from the verb pacceti, meaning ‘to fall back on, to depend on’.

Idappaccayatā has also been translated as ‘causality’. However, Venerable Payutto argues: “Although the twelve factors […] act as conditions for one another, this is not the same as saying they are ‘causes’ for one another.”[33] I think the term ‘cause’ is acceptable, as long as we limit what we mean by this.[34] Gokhale explains: “The concept of cause in the West is generally understood as the sufficient condition of the effect, whereas in Indian philosophical discussions, it is generally understood as a necessary condition.”[35] In the so-called West, a cause is generally considered to be a thing which actively produces its effect. A cause of death would for example be a heart attack. It wouldn’t be birth.[36] But when the Buddha says birth is a cause of death, he simply means that birth is necessary for death. Birth causes death in the sense that death couldn’t happen without it.

This knowledge provides important context for passages like this:

Here the Buddha effectively applies the principle of contraposition:

  • If there is no birth, there is no old age and death.
  • Therefore, old age and death depend on birth.
  • (I.e., only if there is birth, will there be old age and death.)

The Buddha says birth is a condition (paccaya) for death, by which he means it is a necessary condition. The word paccaya also means ‘requirement’, such as when it is used for the requisites of a monastic, specifically medicines.[38] Medicines alone are not sufficient for a monastic to survive, but for a sick one they would be necessary. Furthermore, one discourse speaks of certain defilements that arise “with form as a condition” (or “dependent on form”, rūpa-paccayā).[39] This must also indicate a necessary condition rather than a sufficient one, because form by itself does not cause any defilements.

The Buddha also says birth is cause (hetu) for death. Considering modern conceptions of causality, ‘cause’ can be a misleading translation in this context, so in earlier translations I avoided it.[40] But the translation is workable once the reader realizes that causality has been conceived of in various ways throughout the centuries. Aristotle for example talked about four types of causes, one of which is the material a thing is made of. To Aristotle, clay is a cause for a pot. The ancient Indians also had a different conception of causality than most of us do nowadays. To them, necessary conditions are also causes.

The Nyāya Sutra Bhāshya by Vātsyāyana is a Hindu text, which displays these ideas perfectly. One passage discusses different types of inference. In illustrating one type, the text says that the conclusion “it rains (only) if there are clouds” can be inferred from the knowledge that it never rains when there are no clouds. (This knowledge literally is, “if there are no clouds, there is no rain”, asatsu megheṣu vṛṣṭir na bhavati, which has the exact same grammatical structure as the Buddha’s statements of dependency.) A hypothetical opponent then replies that the conclusion is invalid, since “sometimes there are clouds, but there is no rain”. Vātsyāyana replies that the opponent misunderstands the conclusion. The knowledge that it never rains when there are no clouds leads to the conclusion that “clouds are a necessary condition for rain. Of course clouds are not a sufficient condition for rain; that is the way with causal factors.”[41]

Firstly, this confirms how “causal factors” were understood in India at the time. Causes were primarily necessary conditions. (The text has been dated anywhere between 200 BCE and 400 CE.)

Secondly, the opponent must have understood Vātsyāyana to have concluded “there is rain if there are clouds”. As we discussed, this would mean clouds are a sufficient condition for rain, which indeed wouldn’t allow for times when there are clouds but no rain. And to derive this conclusion from “if there are no clouds, there is no rain” would be invalid. So the opponent’s critique would be correct.

However, Vātsyāyana actually meant “there is rain only if there are clouds”, in which case clouds are just a necessary condition for rain. It is hard to convey in English translations, but the opponent’s confusion is understandable. The Sanskrit statement has a similar locative absolute as the Pali imasmiṃ sati.[42] The difference between “if” and “only if” does not exist here either. It is therefore the context, not the grammar, which determines whether we are dealing with sufficient or necessary conditions. It seems Vātsyāyana set up his hypothetical opponent precisely to make this point, the same point I have tried to make in this essay.

Closing thoughts

The reader may wonder, does all of this really matter? Admittedly, in a deep sense, no. I don’t think anybody will be deprived of real insights into Dependent Arising just because a translator chose “if” over “only if”. These insights come from meditation, not from technical analysis such as the above. We can even misunderstand the Buddha’s words in theory, yet still understand Dependent Arising in practice, and vice-versa.

However, I would not have written this essay if I thought the translation did not matter at all. I have seen textual explanations of Dependent Arising go awry by taking imasmiṃ sati as indicating sufficient conditions. But when seen as necessary conditions, the whole teaching becomes a more unified whole. By including “only”, the origination and cessation sequences convey the exact same dependencies. They are logically equivalent; or in technical terms, are contrapositions of one another. This shows the simplicity, and yet brilliancy, of the Buddha’s teaching. To me, that worthwhile in its own right.

Lastly, two other ways to solve the problems have been suggested, both of which conserve the sufficient conditionality of this for that in imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti. The first suggestion is that each factor in the origination sequence is not only a sufficient condition for the following one, but also necessary condition. This means we should translate the statement as “there will be this, if and only if there is that”. The second suggestion is that the links in the origination sequence all assume the existence of ignorance. For example, when the Buddha says “if there are sensations, there will be craving”, he really means “if there are sensations and ignorance, there will be craving”.[43]

Both suggestions solve some of the problems, but far from all. They also create problems of their own. For sake of brevity, I will not explain why this is the case here. Nevertheless, even if these alternatives did not have their own problems, I think my suggestion is still considerably more simple and therefore preferable.

I hope future translators will agree and consider the inclusion of “only”.


  1. Bodhi, SN 12.21 ↩︎

  2. Although I do have some formal training in mathematical logic, I am not a logician. For more extensive explanations see for example Delancey, especially p.28–29. ↩︎

  3. Compare Duroiselle §603iii: “Sati […] may also often be translated by ‘if, such being the case’.” Wijesekera §184: “The temporal notion is not the only idea expressed by the loc[ative] absolute. […] It may also signify a condition that exists or should exist for the fulfillment of the main action, which may be rendered by such expressions as ‘if, on condition, provided that’ etc.” ↩︎

  4. For example Griffiths p.31: “For the occurrence of any given event Y, there exists a necessary and sufficient condition X.” Reat p.21: “The term [paṭiccasamuppāda] may properly be applied to any set of results dependent upon necessary and sufficient conditions.” Brahmavamso: “The sufficient condition is expressed by the first half of idappaccayatā.” ↩︎

  5. For example Sujato p.89: “The first pair of principles [i.e. the first two statements of idappaccayatā] appears to imply sufficient conditionality. If something exists, another thing comes to be. However, a close contextual examination reveals that this is not so. [D]ependent origination is primarily necessary conditionality.” Harvey p.65 (quoted by Sangiacomo p.16): “The ‘that’ of the abstract formula is not a single determining cause but a major condition, one of several. It is clear that a nidāna is seen as a necessary condition for that which it conditions, but not as a necessary and sufficient condition.” Gethin p.153: “Although the formula states just one condition for each subsequent link, this should not be taken as suggesting that a single cause is a sufficient condition for the arising of each further link.” Brasington p.26: “Dependent origination is a teaching about necessary conditions.” Ronkin p.206: “If y arose, then x had necessarily been present.” Hamilton p.214 (quoted by Ronkin p.207): “If there is a b, then there must have been an a.” Brahmavamso: “Only some of the first 11 factors are a sufficient condition for the factor following.” Cintita p.222: “Each link represents a necessary condition—though in general not a sufficient condition—for the link that follows.” Jones 2022 p.135: “To understand each of these conditionally-arisen phenomena as necessary and sometimes sufficient conditions for the arising of the next in the sequence allows for interpretations that are truer to the teachings [compared to when seen as a causal (and sufficient) sequence].” ↩︎

  6. Jayatilleke p.449 paraphrases imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti as “B […] occurs only when A is present” but still translates it as “whenever A is present, B is present”. Similarly, Sangiacomo p.16 paraphrases “only when this is present, then that is” but still translates “when this is, that is”. ↩︎

  7. Compare the Buddha’s definition of Dependent Arising in SN 12.1. ↩︎

  8. In the Abhidharmakośabhāṣya, Vasumitra already makes this argument to disprove sufficiency in the links; see De La Vallée Poussin p.231 and Griffiths p.69. Also making it for the same reason are Brahmavamso, Sujato p.89, Harvey p.65 (quoted by Sangiacomo p.16), and Jones 2022 p.138. ↩︎

  9. Compare Sujato p.90: “Quite clearly, birth is a necessary condition for aging & death. It is true that birth is also a sufficient condition for death; however it is not a sufficient condition for aging (because a being who has been newly born might die immediately before aging).” ↩︎

  10. SN 12.2 ↩︎

  11. See also Brahmavamso. ↩︎

  12. See Iti 44. ↩︎

  13. AN 4.131 ↩︎

  14. See also Brahmavamso. ↩︎

  15. SN 12.65. Compare DN 14, DN 15, and SN 12.67. ↩︎

  16. See MN 43 and SN 41.6. ↩︎

  17. MN 28 ↩︎

  18. See also Sujato p.88: “If in the thought-world of the suttas ‘x is a condition for y’ means ‘x is a sufficient condition for y’, this leaves open the question whether other things may also be sufficient.” ↩︎

  19. See for example Karunadasa. ↩︎

  20. Sunyo ↩︎

  21. SN 12.10 ↩︎

  22. SN 46.2 ↩︎

  23. MN 38 ↩︎

  24. MN 41 ↩︎

  25. Notice that the cessation statement “if sensations cease, craving ceases” is also rather superfluous. Like other authors, I suspect the link between sensations and craving is somewhat artificial because at this point two shorter sequences were linked together. For a further discussion see Sunyo Ch.2. ↩︎

  26. SN 12.67 ↩︎

  27. See Delancey p.29. ↩︎

  28. Snp 3.12 ↩︎

  29. Snp 3.12 ↩︎

  30. Wijesekera §184 ↩︎

  31. Compare Delancey p.28: “An oddity of English is that the word ‘only’ changes the meaning of ‘if’.” ↩︎

  32. Jayatilleke p.449, emphasis added ↩︎

  33. Payutto p.238 ↩︎

  34. Compare Sangiacomo p.7: “The teaching of conditioned co-origination is often presented as a teaching about ‘causation’, although it is also often noted that this causal interpretation can be problematic if it is not sufficiently nuanced.” ↩︎

  35. Gokhale p.32 ↩︎

  36. Compare Jones 2011 p.27–28. ↩︎

  37. DN 15 ↩︎

  38. For example in gilānappaccaya (MN 2) or catumāsappaccaya (Bhikkhu Pācittiya 47). ↩︎

  39. AN 5.200 ↩︎

  40. In Sunyo I translated hetu as ‘condition’, with paccaya as ‘requirement’. Compare Ronkin p.98 and p.207: “In the Nikāyas […] hetu and paccaya are regarded as synonymous. […] Paccaya has a wide range of meaning: it signifies ‘support’, ‘requisite’, ‘means’, ‘reason’, ‘grounds’, ‘cause’ and ‘condition’. Hetu is less laden a term, primarily denoting ‘cause’, ‘reason’ and ‘condition’.” ↩︎

  41. Nyāya Sutra Bhāshya 2.2.3–2.2.4. Paraphrase by Potter p.254, emphasis added. For a complete translation see Jhā p.197–198. ↩︎

  42. It uses satsu, Sanskrit of Pali santesu, which is plural of sati. ↩︎

  43. This is also Ghoṣaka’s counter to Vasumitra in the Abhidharmakośabhāṣya; see De La Vallée Poussin p.231 and Griffiths p.70. ↩︎

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References

Bodhi
The Connected Discourses of the Buddha: a new translation of the Saṃyutta Nikāya, Bhikkhu Bodhi (tr.), 2000.
Brahmavamso
Dependent Origination, Ajahn Brahmavamso, 2002.
Brasington
Dependent Origination and Emptiness, Leigh Brasington, 2021.
Cintita
Buddhist Life/Buddhist Path: the foundations of Buddhism based on earliest sources, Bhikkhu Cintita, 2017.
De La Vallée Poussin
Abhidharmakośabhāṣyam of Vasubandhu (tr. Leo M. Pruden), Louis de La Vallée Poussin (tr.), 1991.
Delancey
A Concise Introduction to Logic, Craig Delancey, 2017.
Duroiselle
A Practical Grammar of the Pāli Language. Fourth Edition, revision 3 (ed. Eizel), Charles Duroiselle, 1906/2007.
Gethin
The Foundations of Buddhism, Rupert Gethin, 1998.
Gokhale
Lokāyata/Cārvāka: a philosophical inquiry, Pradeep P. Gokhale, 2015.
Griffiths
On Being Mindless: Buddhist meditation and the mind-body problem, Paul J. Griffiths, 1986.
Hamilton
Early Buddhism: a new approach, Sue Hamilton, 2000.
Harvey
‘The Conditioned Co-arising of Mental and Bodily Processes within Life and Between Lives’ in A Companion to Buddhist Philosophy pp.46–68 (ed. S.M. Emmanuel), Peter Harvey, 2013.
Jayatilleke
Early Buddhist Theory of Knowledge, K.N. Jayatilleke, 1963.
Jhā
Gautama's Nyāyasūtras, with Vātsyāyana-bhāṣya, Gaṅgānātha Jhā, 1939.
Jones 2011
This Being, That Becomes: the Buddha’s teaching on conditionality, Dhivan Thomas Jones, 2011.
Jones 2022
‘This Being, That Becomes’ in Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies vol.45 pp.119–155, Dhivan Thomas Jones, 2022.
Karunadasa
‘The Buddhist Critique of Sassatavada and Ucchedavada: the key to a proper understanding of the origin and the doctrines of early Buddhism’ in The Middle Way vol.74, Y. Karunadasa, 1999.
Payutto
Buddhadhamma: the laws of Nature and their benefits to life (tr. R.P. Moore), P.A. Payutto, 2021.
Potter
Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies vol.2: Indian Metaphysics and Epistemology—the tradition of Nyaya-Vaisesika up to Gangesa, Karl H. Potter (ed.), 1977.
Reat
‘Some Fundamental Concepts of Buddhist Psychology’ in Religion vol.17, Noble Ross Reat, 1987.
Ronkin
Early Buddhist Metaphysics: the making of a philosophical tradition, Noa Ronkin, 2005.
Sangiacomo
‘Conditionality (idappaccayatā) in the Pāli Discourses of the Buddha’ in Philosophies vol.10, Andrea Sangiacomo, 2025.
Sujato
A Swift Pair of Messengers, Bhikkhu Sujato, 2012.
Sunyo
Seeds, Paintings and a Beam of Light: similes for Dependent Arising, Bhikkhu Sunyo, 2024.
Wijesekera
Syntax of the Cases in the Pali Nikayas, O.H. de A. Wijesekera, 1993.
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Hi all! :slight_smile: Please discuss/critique my thoughts below. Just to repeat that I am aware that this is a very theoretical issue, one which has little bearing on meditation.

Also tagging Ven. @Sujato, because if I remember correctly, when in the past I made the same point in brief in comments on his translations, he replied he would think about it.

Edit: later in this thread there is a further explanation of contraposition.

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Hi, venerable! :smiley: :pray: Thank you for all of the time spent in presenting this issue — impressive enthusiasm!

While I’m no logician, I very much agree with your general presentation and interpretation here. Sādhu! I also hope this is implemented in future translations and teachings on dependent arising (without needing to get too intellectual). While explaining and justifying dependency/necessity can be complicated, the plain logical idea of dependency is relatively commonplace and could be of great benefit for people to apply to their practice, even if they don’t learn the precise details of translating the Pāḷi and so on.

One small note on the ideas:

If the origination and cessation sequences did not logically follow from one another but were instead two separate insights the Buddha had (one into sufficiency and one into necessity) expressed by separate statements which he combined into two chains, then the correspondence between the two would likely fall apart. However, several discourses allude to the two beings intrinsically connected.

It would also affect how you would be supposed to apply such ideas in your reflection. For example, if you are supposed to reflect that ‘X depends on Y, but therefore if Y ceases then X will cease,’ then you do not need to reflect on sufficiency explicitly. On the other hand, if you are supposed to reflect on sufficiency, and also reflect on the fact that without the requisite conditions the result will cease, then you would have almost two separate tasks to complete at hand, because to prove sufficiency would require a different process than one to prove necessity (as you demonstrated also with basic logical examples).

And a bit of nit-picking for the sake of writing: as far as my English knowledge goes, it’s ungrammatical to say “It’s weekend,” and must always be “It’s the weekend” with an article, unlike “It’s Saturday” which is totally proper.

Then, just to mention here for the benefit of anyone who may be interested, our friend @Erika_ODonnell made a post about similar issues (contrapositive, etc.) with nice comments on the topic by other intelligent practitioners. The link is here:

:pray:

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I remember Ajahn Brahmavanso mapped DCO’s principle to the double implication operation in one of the old articles on the topic - probably the same article mentioned in the references. It is an interesting intellectual exercise to map DCO to the formal logic system.

Another important aspect that might be of interest is the multi-valued logic systems in ancient India. The Pāli canon does not subscribe to the formal two valued logic. There are several occasions that four fold logic is assumed in conversations.

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Just to add to the logic bit of the post, I dug up some notes of mine and found the Truth Table for If-Then and If and only If statements for easy reference.
If and only if is a bidirectional statement.

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Thanks, Venerable. I wasn’t all that enthusiastic initially, however! :smiley: I didn’t think it would help anybody. I wasn’t even going to post about it, until Ajahn Brahmali brought up the issue. So I’m happy you think it is useful. :slight_smile:

I’d say the complete picture does come as different insights, but those are indeed not separated in terms of sufficiency and necessity. Rather, they are insight into the past (how suffering arose) and the future (how suffering will cease). And yes, these logically follow from one another. If you see that in your past lives (and this life) all suffering depended on birth caused by ignorance, then you automatically realize that if ignorance ends, birth and hence suffering will end. Because there would be no (logical :wink: ) difference between the past and future.

So even though they are logically equivalent, the origination and cessation sequences are still different.

When these insights happen, they won’t be thought of specifically as necessary conditions, however. It’s like when you burn your hand, you won’t be questioning whether the heat was sufficient or necessary for the pain! :smiley: And to alleviate it, you’ll just put your hand in water without asking such questions as well.

Still, when the insights need to be explained in words, it could be done in various ways. And the Buddha chose a certain way. Maybe he was even inspired by the prevalent concept of causality at the time, where causes are necessary conditions. It also seems reasonable that his explanation developed over time, with the twelvefold sequences being one of the latest iterations.

But even in what’s probably the earliest version, we can see that craving in general is not sufficient for the origination of suffering. Te second noble truth says it is specifically the craving that leads to rebirth which leads to suffering. All craving an arahant had before they became enlightened doesn’t lead to rebirth, so it doesn’t fall under the third noble truth. Hence craving in general is not a sufficient condition for suffering. The suffering that arahants do still experience depend on their craving in the previous life—“old karma”, as the suttas call it.

Most of this is even the case for non-enlightened people. Most of their craving doesn’t lead to rebirth, so it doesn’t set off the following factors. So even for them, craving is not sufficient for upadana leading to bhava leading to birth.

Well, there you go! :slight_smile: Seems that, as always, I have little new to say. :smiley: :wink:

Erika and Sylvester basically concluded the same things. Most importantly, Sylvester also suggests to translate imasmiṃ sati differently.

They also point out this passage from MN38:

This is can be seen as another example of contraposition, which only works if fuel is a necessary condition. And of course, it is. This is illustrated just earlier:

Fixed, thanks!

Hi!, Yes, that’s here. Ajahn Brahm is far from the first to bring up these matters, though. In the Abhidharmakośa-bhāsya there is already a discussion whether feeling is necessary or sufficient for craving! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: (Though the context is different.)

I’d say Ajahn Brahm contradicts himself in that essay, though. He first says the imasmim sati formula indicates a sufficient condition (of the prior factor for the following). But then he says that not all factors in the twelvefold chain are sufficient for the following.

However, this doesn’t work, because the formula is applied to all factors.

So I party agree with him, partly disagree.

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Hi venerable! :folded_hands: I think it’s useful to have such written formal accounts, because as you’re probably very familiar, issues like these are often very hard to discuss or justify without making long cases or considering various details. So it’s something that can easily be pointed to for why ‘only if’ is a good, useful translation. And it doesn’t seem others have really formally made a case as you did here, which requires a lot of energy to properly put together!

I don’t think we necessarily (pun?) disagree, just different phrasing. (Let me know if you think otherwise though!)

Of course essentially by definition, for someone to know arising is not the same as them knowing cessation. But that doesn’t mean someone has to first try and work out the origination sequence and remember that, then move on and try and figure out the cessation sequence, then put the two together and only then do they see the Dhamma, as a sort of linear progression of reasoning. So they wouldn’t have to have two separate insights in that sense of working separate things out independently of each other. Rather, as you and also the Buddha says in the suttas, their knowledge of both origination and cessation would come as one package deal, as a result of their letting go. You seem to say the same idea:

Since similes are nice especially for more abstract topics, maybe you could evaluate the following hypothetical simile :slight_smile: :

Imagine someone getting a beautiful, golden-wrapped gift box in the mail.

:wrapped_gift:

We could imagine there is a special box which is sent from one person to another. Each person never actually opens up the box, but instead they share it forward for the next person to enjoy, and so on. Eventually, you receive the box in the mail, beautifully wrapped with golden-hued paper and a red ribbon. With the enticing wrapping, you decide to examine the box instead of simply shipping the box on to the next person without opening it as others have done.

Curious to figure out what’s inside, you use a pair of scissors to separate the lid from the bottom of the box and examine the contents. Once you open it up and set the two pieces aside, you’re surprised to see that the box actually has nothing inside of it! Because you see something unexpected, a sudden flash of insight comes to you, connecting the various clues in your mind in one moment.

You realize that the box arrived to you from the past, shipped by someone else, under the assumption that it had a precious gift inside that was worth protecting and transmitting on. Because the box was empty with nothing obstructing you from seeing it clearly, you could also notice the various borders of the box from the inside. You saw they were covered in patches and marks that indicated many people in the past had been shipping that box around for a long time.

You’d also realize that, with nothing of value actually there, you wouldn’t want to ship the box forward to anyone else. In fact, it’s just a load of work and hassle to keep shipping a box that doesn’t actually give anything of substance in return. The delusions and distractions of the pretty outside of the box fool people into spending all that money, time, and effort in protecting and shipping it. Once you remove your habit of protecting the box, you wouldn’t send it again.

And you’d know that, while the box still exists as such from being shipped in the past, if it sits around without being re-packaged up and sent on, eventually the cardboard would just naturally deterioriate and fall apart, leaving nothing in its place because there was nothing inside.

The box is the five khandhas, being shipped from life to life. The beautiful wrapping stands for how you could prepare and beautify the mind through the noble eightfold path, inviting you to look inside. The scissors you’d use to open the box are penetrating wisdom. Separating the lid from the bottom is when, through cutting wisdom, you’d temporarily set aside both the consciousness and the other aspects of existence which are glued to one another. What’s left when you’d set those aside would be emptiness, nothing else, just as you’d find out that life is empty of any self or enduring entity beyond temporary conditions, with no actual benefit or reward in moving forward but only suffering and struggle.

Just like when you saw the empty box you also saw the signs of people in the past patching and wanting to ship it under the assumption it had a gift inside, if you focused properly on the cessation of mind or consciousness ceased, letting go of the other aspects of life, you’d also realise that it has been stuck there from the past because of the sense of self and desire, and the momentum it has for moving on in the future so long as those conditions remain.

The only real ‘gift’ inside is that when you open the box, you’d gain the understanding of how to stop it. The way to stop the box is precisely by looking inside to remove your delusion or assumption of the contents, which removes your desire to send it on. So the ultimate purpose of the box being shipped on and on was for someone to eventually open it up and lose interest in shipping it!

Likewise, you’d realise that your life was being propelled on without a purpose but to eventually stop. If all the conditions for propelling it (desire fuelled by delusion) were eradicated, then the results of your old kamma remaining would eventually fall apart and your final khandhas would pass away without remainder. Until then, though, your khandhas would hang around, just like the box would still exist before falling apart.

Then the person could name the box ‘Sunyo’ and store it away in a closet in Australia :blush::laughing: But that name is taken!

In all of that, your knowledge would be of necessary conditions, or what keeps the process going. Because you didn’t actually create the box; it was shipped to you already made. Likewise, the arising sequence of samsāra is not the creation of samsāra from scratch. Samsāra is already arisen, and the arising sequence is how it re-arises again. That is a crucial difference between the origination and cessation teachings, and I suspect it lies at the heart of some of the debate between sufficiency / necessity.

If you get a box, all you need to know is what conditions keep that box being shipped on. Or if you’re trying to knock down a tower, you only need to know what keeps that tower standing. The tower is already standing when you found it, so you don’t need to contemplate how it got there in the first place, just what maintains its existence. Likewise, since the arising sequence is just about how what’s already here keeps arising, you only need to know the necessary conditions that maintain that. Don’t know if that makes sense, but it seems relevant to some disagreements.

Please let me know if you think there’s something worth distinguishing or that you feel differently on! I fear at this point the topic is probably going a bit off from the original post, but it still seems relevant.

As an aside: I think the ‘bhūtamidam’ passage you quoted found in MN 38/SN 12.31 probably refers to the whole of life (as the commentary says), with the neuter there being a general, non-specific neuter rather than a reference back to consciousness—though I’m still a bit unsure. But that would be another discussion entirely!

My respects, venerable! :pray:

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Thank you for your post, bhante. Here are some of my thoughts.

It seems to me that there is a logical contradiction in the quoted paragraph. When you say, for example, that avijja no longer leads to sankhara, you are basically saying that avijja alone is not sufficient for there to be sankhara. This implies that there are some other factors which, after getting conjoined with avijja, would make it sufficient for there to be sankhara. But you say that there can no longer be other outside factors, which means that avijja fully explains sankhara, i.e. is not only necessary, but also sufficient for it. So, you are saying that it is true and not true that the preceding factors are sufficient for the consequent factors.

Furthermore, I think there is another problem. You say that all the consequent links have the preceding links as their necessary condition: avijja is necessary for sankhara, sankhara - for vinnana …, namarupa …, salayatana …, phassa - for vedana, etc. By the law of transitivity (A=B=C → A=C), we can say that avijja is necessary for vedana. Now, the way you interpret necessary condition is like this:

>For example, “only if there is existence [continuing from a past life], will there be birth” leaves no room for anybody to say: “If there is no existence [continuing from a past life], there is also birth.”

This would mean that one can’t say that if there is no avijja, there is still vedana. But you’ve admitted that arahants, despite being free from ignorance, still have vedana.

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You’re right, if read a certain way. I should have summarized more carefully. Because I actually agree. As I also said:

Some factors are necessary and sufficient conditions for the following, including ignorance for sankharas.

I rephrased it as:

Hopefully that clarifies what I mean. It’s a problem for some factors, but not all.

Good point, but this is how it works: Their vedana depends upon (has as necessary condition) avijja of the past life. They were reborn due to that avijja, and therefore they experience vedanas.

This is explained in SN12.19:

Hi Venerable,

Actually, aside from the footnotes, it basically came out in one go. But I appreciate your encouragement all the same. :slight_smile: It makes me feel better about sharing what I feared would be more of a distraction for people than anything useful.

Indeed, because, well… they aren’t independent. :slight_smile:

I like your simile of the box! :smiley: Thinking outside the box… It seems like that also took a lot of energy to put together, haha. So thanks! I’ve used a similar simile before to explain how we can understand that there is no self. The shipment idea is new to me, though.

I just wouldn’t say all insights of stream winning happen “in one moment”. They are a series of insights, which may even take a number of days. It’s like the Buddha’s enlightenment knowledges took place over some time. (Compare also SN12.70, on the knowledge of nibbāna coming last.) The stream winner’s insights also culminate in a knowledge of nibbāna—being the knowledge that the cessation of existence is now inevitable—which would be the actual fruit of stream winning. That’s why I said that the knowledge of arising and ceasing are still separate in time, although they are logically independent and based on the same inquiry.

Yes, it’s not like you start purely with ignorance and then wonder what inevitably happens from there. You can’t, because ignorance may cease tomorrow. It’s more like asking: suffering is already here, so how/why?

I wouldn’t say that it’s only about how to maintain what’s already here, however. The mind also figures out that the box that is here was shipped from a prior place, and that it was shipped many, many times before. And in each case because the “owner” of the box forgot to look inside. This is essentially the knowledge of origination.

The mind also realizes that the box may be shipped on a few more times, all the while falling further apart. But soon it will completely fall apart, because the ribbon that holds it together has been cut. That’s essentially the knowledge of cessation.

Knowledge of rebirth has to be based in part on the past, because potentially there won’t be any more rebirths to come, even for the now-puthujjana. So you can’t base this knowledge purely on what’s here and now. And knowledge of the cessation of existence has to be in some sense based on the future, even for the enlightened ones, because they are still in state of existence while alive.

Maybe. Then again, there’s a huge gap between actual insight and even the best descriptions of that insight. So it’s not surprising to me that people disagree on some details of those descriptions, even if they all may have actual insight into what is being pointed to.

If the Buddha never taught DO but people still attained stream winning, it’d be interesting to see what explanations they’d come up with then. :smiley: I wouldn’t be surprised if they phrased it in terms of sufficient conditions instead.

Yeah, could be, although it would be quite out of context. Anyway, the logic behind it would be the same: fuel is a necessary condition for fire, not a sufficient one. (To get back to the topic.)

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If some factors are necessary and sufficient, whereas others are only necessary, would mean that the DO clearly contains equivocation: sometimes imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti refers to necessary and sufficient conditions, sometimes only to necessary. Generally, we take equivocation to be an intellectual vice, especially when it occurs in the same passage, so it seems that your rendering of the DO creates a new problem.

Moreover, this “mixed” approach to DO has another issue. As I’ve mentioned, the “consistent” approach, where every link is either only necessary or only necessary and sufficient for consequent links, has a property of transitivity: avijja is necessary (and sufficient) for sankhara, sankhara - for vinnana, therefore, avijja is necessary (and sufficient) for vinnana. Under the “mixed” approach, the transitivity relation breaks: at some point you will have a situation, where some link, although having avijja as a necessary precursor, is not sufficiently explained by avijja (which, you admit, is necessary And sufficient for sankhara). Therefore, I have the following questions:

  1. At what point does a preceding link of the DO not fully explain the subsequent link?

  2. What are the other conditions that, after getting conjoined with one of the necessary but not sufficient preceding links of the DO, would be sufficient for obtaining the subsequent link?

Hello Venerable, the only thing I dislike about this post is your own doubts about whether this kind of logical analysis is important and/or useful in practice. This is an excellent post and in my experience such formalism and attention to detail about the logical structure of what we are studying is immensely helpful.

Getting lost in logical contradictions or logical errors prevents progress on the path and leads to over estimation. Understanding the logical formalism behind truth claims in depth can give confidence about what one actually knows versus what one doesn’t. It’s valuable in my experience. :clap: :folded_hands:

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Hi Venerable :slight_smile:

I agree with @yeshe.tenley that this is a good topic to discuss. I like this type of topic because it requires paying close attention to what the Buddha said, thinking about it and analyzing it. To me, this is an expression of devotion to the Buddha :nerd_face:

I wonder if Ven. Payutto defines conditions or causes in his work? These types of discussion tend to go on without anyone defining the key terms they are discussing.

But I have since changed my mind on this! (Insert dramatic dan dan daaa sound byte).

Like, I don’t know how to explain why I changed my mind except by saying that, real world things just don’t relate to each other logically. Logic is just a truth table. Once it is agreed what is 0 and what is 1, every well-reasoned consequence follows.

Rain → Clouds only works because clouds causally produce rain in the real world. Thus, predicate logic captures part of the observational distribution of the causal relationship Clouds :right_arrow: Rain (using this arrow emoji for causal relation as opposed to logical implication :nerd_face: )

What does Cloud :right_arrow: Rain mean? It means three things:

  1. (Observation) Rain → Clouds; we should observe clouds if we observe rain (more generally the cause must precede the effect)
  2. (Intervention) If we induces changes in clouds we should see changes in rain (see e.g. cloud seeding).
  3. (Counterfactual) Assume it’s raining. Would there be rain if there were no clouds? No. Assume it’s not raining, would there be rain if there were clouds? Maybe. Not all types of clouds cause rain.

Let’s try with feeling and craving:

  1. If we observe craving, we should observe feeling (time lag allowed)
  2. If we intervene on feeling, we should see changes in craving.
  3. Assume there is craving. If there were no feeling, would there be craving? No.

To me, DN 15 is asking about counterfactuals: if we set the value of the preceding causal factor to zero, what happens to the effect? The effect would also be set to zero.

Due to the arising of what, what arises? … Due to the cessation of what, what ceases?

IMO, this isn’t the language of predicate logic, which cannot be used for questions like «what if the clouds disappeared?»

I don’t know if what I’ve written here makes sense to anyone else, but I predict that once the developments in causal inference of the last 15 years become more known in the English speaking world, explicitly causal readings of DO will become more commonplace :slight_smile: :yellow_heart: :blue_heart: :orange_heart:

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This is why I prefer / appreciate the logic of SNP 4.11, as it starts with the problem (rain) and the cause (cloud). This makes it clear what we’re searching for; not an abstract “What happens when there’s cloud?” (potentially, nothing).

Question

Whence so many arguments, disputes
and sorrow, lamentation, selfishness,
arrogance, pride and slander too?
Whence come all these? Please upon them speak.

Buddha

Much love of arguments, disputes,
means sorrow, lamentation, selfishness,
with arrogance, pride and slander too.
Inclined to selfishness, arguments, disputes;
quarrels, slander also come to birth.

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Hi!

No, it doesn’t. It is always the necessary aspect that it refers to. The sufficient aspect can exist beside it without being explicit in this phrase. What you’re arguing here is like: if I say “bananas are yellow”, then “yellow” must mean “yellow curved fruit”, because bananas are not only yellow but also a curve-shaped fruit.

Various. But feeling and craving is a good example. Feeling itself isn’t sufficient for craving. Otherwise arahants would still crave.

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Hi Erika, thanks for your engagement and some helpful additions! :slight_smile: I’m not completely following you, but I do think we are in some agreement. You do bring up certain things I left out of the essay for sake of simplicity.

I agree this second idappacayatā statement (“due to the arising …”) indeed probably cannot be captured as well in predicate (or propositional) logic. That’s why I didn’t focus on it. But what’s important, I don’t think it is completely equivalent to the first idappacayatā statement (the imasmiṃ sati) one. The two statements teach somewhat different principles. Otherwise, would the Buddha say the exact same thing twice? And the first statement I do think can still be captured quite well by such logical systems.

Although not a Buddhist text, I find it very telling that the Nyāya Sutra Bhāshya uses a grammatically word-for-word identical structure as the Pali imasmiṃ (a)sati statements to explain the principle of contraposition, and moreover in a section on how to use inference to tell whether something is a necessary and sufficient conditions. That can’t be a coincidence. I’d be surprised if the Buddha didn’t already know this same logic when forming his teachings on DO. (Or, in the less likely case that the Nyāya Sutra Bhāshya was based on his teachings instead, its authors would have been in a better position than us to judge what imasmiṃ (a)sati was about.)

Also, the words paccaya/paticca indicate a condition not only in DO, but also in such statements as: “This body depends on (paticca) food to continue. It will not continue without it.” (SN46.2) Here we have no problems with how to interpret “if” (i.e. as a material conditional or counterfactual) but we still have effectively a contraposition: “Body continues → food. Therefore, no food → body not continues.” And that’s just one example of where paccaya/paticca means a necessary condition.

Now, I’m saying all this because the passage of DN15 under consideration actually doesn’t use the “due to the arising …” statement. It only uses the X-paccayā Y and imasmiṃ asati forms. Therefore, I think it can still be captured by propositional logic. So the principle of contraposition you argued for some years ago does still apply to these passages all the same, in my opinion: vedanāpaccayā taṇhā and vedanā asati taṇhā na hoti are logically equivalent. And they indicate that vedanā is a necessary condition for taṇhā.

Also, I agree that DO isn’t just about conditionals but also about conditioning. By this I mean, preceding factors aren’t just logical necessary conditions for the following; they also shape them in certain ways. Your examples are good! Another example is consciousness being shaped by saṅkhāras, particularly in a next life. However, this idea of conditioning isn’t incompatible with that of conditionals. So I’d say all the logic I discussed still applies all the same. We just shouldn’t limit our contemplation to it alone.

So, then, I think some of your evolved ideas are not incompatible with what you were saying in the past. Probably not the idea of counterfactuals, tough. But I see no problems with interpreting the imasmiṃ sati statement as a material conditional instead, at least for the logic of translating using “only”. Sure, some causality is also implied by it, which the material cond. doesn’t really capture well. But I think that is not really a problem for what I’m doing. The causality is more so captured in the “due to the arising …” statement.

And also, grammatically I feel the Pali wouldn’t express counterfactuals (as far as I understand these) with a locative absolute. It would do so with a finite (mostly optative/conditional) verb instead, and often using ce, which means “if”. See Magadhabhasa p93-94:

The range of the optative’s meaning further encompasses … counterfactual assertions.

And p99, using ce and abhavissa:

It [the conditional] also denotes an action or happening that might have occurred on the condition that the necessary things had been supplied, i.e. it communicates counterfactual assertions (e.g. no cedaṃ, bhikkhave, paṇḍito sucintitacintī ca abhavissa subhāsitabhāsī ca sukatakammakārī ca kena naṃ paṇḍitā jāneyyuṃ: ‘paṇḍito ayaṃ bhavaṃ sappuriso’ti? – “If the wise man, bhikkhus, would not be one who thinks good thoughts, utters good speech and performs good actions, by what would wise men know him: ‘This venerable, righteous man is a wise man’”)

I can’t think of any examples where the locative absolute functions as such a counterfactual. Nor can I remember any grammar mentioning this.

And so, for various reasons I still think “only” should be included inimasmiṃ sati. :slight_smile:

Am I making sense? :slight_smile: Sorry if I misunderstood you! Please correct me where necessary.

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Hi!

That’s actually very helpful and uplifting for me, thanks. :slight_smile: I often wonder whether to help others, writing is a good way to spend my time, especially things like this. But now I feel much better about it. :+1:

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Dear Bhante Sunyo :folded_hands: :blush:,

Thank you for your amazing work and approach. :slight_smile: I will study your essay slowly and thoroughly, for now I just want to share some initial meta-thoughts on the way of studying the suttas in general:

I think this is a very beautiful and wholesome approach Bhante. It’s nice that you state that of course Dhamma is much deeper than logical reasoning and that the practice is a completely different story than intellectual understanding. At the same time you appreciate the importance of intellectual honesty and a fair play in discussion.

I don’t like when monastics/practitioners use arguments in the spirit of “only Ariya can understand it”, or “only if you lose self” you can understand etc., because first of all it sounds to me a bit like attainment claims and secondly it’s not really fair way of discussing things. If we are already using words and language, it’s good to use it according to a high standards of discussion. Because we cannot know who is englightened and who is not, at least not without attaintment claims, and even then it is always a doubtful matter.

What I love about your approach is that you connect practice orientation and deep respect to the tradition with being open minded and really rational. I find it too often that various people actually already have a view, and then they just look for suttas to confirm what they already believe and you cannot convince them otherwise, even if you present actual rational arguments on reading the texts. This is not real rationality. In your writings I find that you really try to approach things objectively, you look at the suttas as a whole and try to read them “neutrally”, not just seeking to validate your preconceived views. I find that connection to be very isnpiring and refreshing, Sadhu and thank you for that Bhante. :slight_smile: I think this is very wholesome approach to spreading the Dhamma, at least it works for me.

Practice orientation + real rationality = :yellow_heart:

All the best to you. :folded_hands: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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Let me try to summarize my thoughts in a different way then :nerd_face:

I would argue that there’s no problem with leaving out the “Only” in the translation if DO is read through a causal lens rather than a prepositional logic lens. In a causal lens, the statements without “Only” do not lead to any logical fallacies.

The four statements can be read as pretty much a standard interventionist definition of causality: when the cause is, the effect is. When the cause is not, the effect is not.
(I do think the Buddha is just saying the same thing twice here).

Otherwise, doesn’t this raise questions as to whether the Buddha invent binary propositional logic in a culture where quadruple propositional logic (Catuṣkoṭi) was the norm? And why didn’t the various traditions after the Buddha made a bigger deal of it? Why must we go outside Buddhism to find a source for this interpretation?

But if you do decide to read it through the lens of logic, then I agree it makes sense to put the “Only” there.

Counterfactuals in the causal sense in DN 15 is the whole thought experiment “Suppose [the value of the cause were set to zero, what would happen to the effect?]”, I don’t see why this would be related to the grammatical convention for making statements contrary to fact. Like in English we might say “suppose that instead” but that’s something different than counterfactuals wrt causality.

(But also, since our causal intuitions are often encoded in language, it’s not totally separate either. And reasoning usually involves logic, so everything is a bit mishmashed together at the end of the day)

But in sum, I guess I am disagreeing with the choice of lens (logic vs. causality), but not the choices that flow after the choice of lens, if that makes sense :slight_smile:

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