In doubt . SN54.12

Hi members ,

Could someone help explain in this sutta what difference for the trainee and arahant with regards to five hindrances ? Does meaning of meditate after giving up five hindrances equivalent to cut off five hindrances ?

Thank you .


Reverend Mahānāma, the meditation of a trainee and a realized one are not the same; they are different. Those mendicants who are trainees haven’t achieved their heart’s desire, but live aspiring for the supreme sanctuary from the yoke.
【They meditate after giving up the five hindrances. 】
What five? The hindrances of sensual desire, ill will, dullness and drowsiness, restlessness and remorse, and doubt.

Those mendicants who are perfected—who have ended the defilements … for them,
【the five hindrances are cut off at the root】 … and unable to arise in the future. And here’s another way to understand how the meditation of a trainee and a realized one are different.

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It’s like you don’t have to stay in bed and take medicine after the illness is cured.

The arahants have fully eliminated all the hindrances and are no longer “ill” with them. They’re gone and won’t come back, so practicing to be free of them is no longer necessary.

However, they continue to meditate and are mindul, as in SN54.11:

"For those mendicants who are perfected—who have ended the defilements, completed the spiritual journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their own goal, utterly ended the fetters of rebirth, and are rightly freed through enlightenment—the development and cultivation of immersion due to mindfulness of breathing leads to blissful meditation in the present life, and to mindfulness and awareness. "

Hope this is helpful. :pray:

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Hi Jasudho ,

Thanks but it seems you didnt answer my question . My question is whether the trainee has cut off the five hindrances not really about arahant ?

【They meditate after giving up the five hindrances. 】

Does the word《After》in the sentence means already given up five hindrances ?

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I think it refers to a temporary giving up, in samadhi when a hindrance come then it is present, then it goes away and so on.

The arahat is completly free of hindrances forever.


Sorry. The hindrances are temporarily in abeyance during deep samadhi/jhanas. They have not yet been eliminated. The “giving up” is not yet permanent.

The equanimity, peace, and sukha are experienced because the hindrances are temporarily absent. Sometimes this is referred to as cetovimutti in the suttas. A temporary taste of liberation of the mind.

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Hi Mario & Jasudho , thanks . Seems the sutta didnt really says giving up is not permanent ?
And another point is , the ten fetters doesnt include dullness , drowsiness and remorse ? Isnt that arahant do sleeps , thus how does arahant eliminated sleepiness ? Or arahant never sleep ? :thinking:

The sutta doesn’t specify that the entrances have been permanently dropped, because this point is clearly stated many, many times in the sentence.

What clearly differentiate in Arahant from others is the fact that greed, anger and ignorance, and all the defilements have been permanently extinguished.

So the city you are quoting doesn’t have to go out of its way to explicitly state that people who are not or hunts have not yet completely eliminated them.

Because the khandhas are still present and active for a Arahants, they continue to eat, walk, sit, and sleep. The problem is not sleeping itself. It is a natural function of the khandhas.
This natural function is different than laziness, restlessness, and torpor with respect to engaging in the practice.

I understand what you said however not all of the five hindrances correspond to the ten fetters . Dullness and drowsiness, restlessness and remorse are hindrances to develop meditation (jhana) , but those are not really the fetter .


For example, the fetter of conceit that fuels the I-making and mine-making is still present.

To enter jhana the hinderences must be given up.