I think there has been a misunderstanding - you said “unless you’re an arahant I wouldn’t say nothing happens.” which in the context of this conversation could either mean that
'if you die as anything less than an arahant, something will happen after death’
OR
'only an arahant would truly be able to tell us the true nature of Nibbana’ (whether anything “happens” or not).
Yes.
I think this really poses more questions though. For example the meaning of amata. ‘No more birth, no more death.’ Implies to me; no more birth, not even ‘into nibanna’. Nibanna is not just deathless, it’s birthless.
So, the fact here is the five aggregates seems to have no beginning but it can come to an end permanently !
I suppose you would agree something has vanished totally , especially the body !
What is anhialated is craving (desire, aversion, delusion). While an arahant is alive they still have the 5 kandhas, they just don’t take them as self or permrnant.
Five aggregate is dependently originated due to causes and conditions.
It is not possible to trace a thing dependently originated.
If you take a house what is the origin of it?
The only thing we sure of is you can demolish it.
There is a different between a rock and a human being . But , anyway it seems there were two definitions of the term nibbana . So, we are unable to determine it for certain , the simile used and the actuality could be a different matter .
It cannot be proven “what is” or “not” after parinibbana . And doesn’t reappear of the 5 aggregates thereafter does not necessarily mean non existence .
Exactly. Nibbana pertains to the third noble truth or axiom of Buddha’s teaching. And its respective ennobling task is for us to verify/realize it ourselves. The ennobling task is not about making it a philosophical dilemma or puzzle.
Let us not forget that the third noble truth and ita respective task in turn necessarily and naturally brings one to the next one, which is about the eightfold path, which is to be in turn developed by oneself and in a context of spiritual friendship and goodness.
In conclusion, if we just pick the noble truths individually either in our practice or speculation, we are diverging from the way the Buddha intended us to approach them. This is in my view the reason why the Buddha was specific in regards to what kind of conversations his contemplative disciples should engage, as per AN10.69:
modesty,
contentment,
seclusion,
non-entanglement,
arousing persistence,
virtue,
concentration,
discernment,
release, and
knowledge & vision of release.
If you are after an ontology for Nibbana then yes, you will be puzzled at least.
Note however that to “talk of whether things exist or not” is put very clearly as something the Buddha would not advise us to loose time with!
The first two noble axioms or truths are all about letting us live free of the extremes of ontology, it offers the perspective of dependent origination and narrows down the scope of our time and effort to fully understand the stress and pain permeating our experiences as long as non-knowledge and vision of liberation is present.
The third noble axiom or truth is there to confirm that by logic and practice we can see for ourselves the cessation without remainder of the pain and stress as long as we bring about the as well dependent originated knowledge and vision of liberation ourselves and within our stream of experience.
The fourth noble axiom or truth is a beautiful summary of what the Buddha probably realised at the threshold of liberation had brought he himself to that moment of awakening. It is the most beautiful gesture by the Blessed One who after so many years (and lifetimes) tried all extremes and probably experimented a lot through trial and error.
As awakening took place in his heart the probably got that ‘a-ha!’ feeling and everything became clear to him, one thing lead to another, one thing supported the other. Little by little the spin changed its motion, from suffering perpetuation to suffering cessation. The task was done, can you imagine the relief!?
But above all, it is very smart a call for action, not speculation. All of the eight factors are timeless and practical to all human beings, there’s no excuse to not give it a try and it is, in the end of the day, nothing more than a natural outcome of the awakening contagion of the Dhamma through time and space.