Is practicing Buddhism solely to acheive a good rebirth considered misguided?

The Watercooler
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This is something I’ve been wondering about recently. Obviously, the goal of Buddhism is to achieve Nirvana, to bring an end to samsara and suffering. However, is it considered misguided for a Buddhist to practice Buddhism solely to achieve a good rebirth or even worldly gain, and not to at least gain stream entry (or higher)? If it is misguided does that mean it is necessarily bad? I ask because it obviously isn’t aligned with the main goal of Buddhism, but it can still be beneficial for the person and society as a whole. And because a lot of Buddhists, I’d say a significant majority, in Buddhist countries practice Buddhism for these reasons.

Thanks! (and by misguided/incorrect I don’t mean in a moral sense)

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Buddha discouraged monastics to practice for heaven, but I don’t think it’s an issue for lay people.

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This is exactly the goal for laypeople - and the Buddha gives detailed instruction on how it is to be achieved.

That includes the world’s first portfolio advice!

DN31
By dividing wealth into four parts,
True friendships are bound;
One part should be enjoyed;
Two parts invested in business;
And the fourth set aside
Against future misfortunes.

So 25% Cash/ short term bills, 50% Stocks, 25% Gold/ long term bonds ? :rofl: :joy:

But also, the Buddha doesn’t tire of pointing out that …

AN 7.7
that is wealth, I can’t deny it. But fire, water, rulers, thieves, and unloved heirs all take a share of that wealth. There are these seven kinds of wealth that they can’t take a share of. What seven? The wealth of faith, ethics, conscience, prudence, learning, generosity, and wisdom.

and he teaches the origin and ending of Suffering to lay people in a way that is both direct and immediate.

So, yes… the Buddha does indeed also teach the path to a good rebirth! And IMO, considering the completely unskillful way most people lead their lives, anyone who follows this path rooted in faith, ethics, conscience, prudence, learning, generosity and wisdom is far above the ordinary.

9 Likes
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There is the idea of Pure Land in Mahayana, and the Buddhafields that extend exponentially higher. Some of these are for Bodhisattva practices, but some serious Pure Land practitioners believe in rebirth in the Amida Buddha Pure Land as the all in all. Then in some places it is mentioned good fortune will follow those who propagate the Mystic Law of the Good Dharma, a higher rebirth will follow them, more fortune for true Bodhisattva practices. But if you’re looking for true Cessation as the all in all in Buddhism, and Parinibbana (that is what Buddha teaches in the Pali Canon), in Arhatship the quickest method is Buddhist study for Nibbana and Awakening in the current life. Though there are also many stories of Lay People becoming happy Devas for serving the Sangha. I hope you find the most inspiring Path!

1 Like
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Its slightly misguided but does not mean necessarily bad more like unwise.

Let say one aims for heavenly stage, its still beneficial for the person ,at least in this life time, they will be accumulating good ,karma avoiding akusala karma, and beneficial to the society though various beneficial practice ; eg dana,sila. T

The good karma accumulated might be helpful along the path of samsara, (provide temporal abode ?relief, provide supports, eg one has enough materials etc to practice Dhamma in the subsequent life.

From general observation , it is comparatively smaller percentage Buddhist aims for liberation Nibbana.
why is that so ? its due to the lack of development on Panna-Saddha and , the lack of samvega .

As each person/beings has its own unique caritas, defilements, (lobha,dosa,moha)level of developments of factors enlightenment,difference level of understanding of Dhamma hence its naturally each beings has diffence aims,goal of Buddhism.

This progression on reason/destination/aim/goal are correlated with the development of Panna, Saddha and Samvega on each person.

Secondly we will notice to Buddha teaching goes with anupubbikathā [ gradual discourse,gradual instruction,progressive instruction.

"[ DN3,DN14, MN56)

  1. Generosity [dāna]
  2. Virtue (*[sīla]
  3. Heaven (sagga)
  4. Danger of sensual pleasure (*[kāmānaṃ ādīnava
  5. Renunciation (*[nekkhamma]
  6. The [Four Noble Truths] (*cattāri ariya-saccāni

The probable causes one aims for worldly gain/ good rebirth-heavenly realm are due to lack of understanding ( Panna-wisdom),
One their Panna has not ripen, one doesnt understand, comprehend the 5th point above , danger;

the danger of sensual pleasure - the danger of samsara,-- once one understand the danger ,naturally one will seek a solution, way out -by start learning-practicing the eightfold paths.

( hence their vision has been established - i want to be free from suffering,free from danger of Samsaric existence.

#in conclusion #
One might start out aiming for worldly gain and a heavenly stage, but as time progresses ,with development imbued with understanding ,practice of the Dhamma deepens,the aims will switch toward achievement for Ariya and the ending of Samsara."

Mettacittena
Qzl

6

They’ve given up craving,
and have gone forth from lay life;
they’ve ended craving to be reborn:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

They’ve thrown off the human yoke,
and slipped out of the heavenly yoke;
unyoked from all yokes:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.

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Not so much misguided, but lacking in ambition, IMO.

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Seems rather transactional to me, but there are different types of people with different ranges of vision.

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Buddhism can help one to achieve a good life, good health.

10

I disagree with most answers here, although I think “Dharma” is on the right track.

It’s utterly misguided for a Buddhist to do anything that stems from a belief of any kind. It’s a fabrication based on Self-grasping. When you hold a belief, you are a prisoner. You are making something be that is not to be. Some will take issue here; it doesn’t mean that rebirth can’t or doesn’t happen. It means that the belief “I should” is silly and not Buddhist.

Even a morally praiseworthy belief is empty of truth.

Its origin is the same Self-grasping.

(Are there not two types of people who would, for instance, give dana? The first is neurotic, utterly obsessed with their rebirth in a better realm — and the second is peaceful, due to a deep understanding of human nature.)

It seems that the person who knows and sees Dhamma would be roused up to do good in the here and the now not because of any idea of future gain, but because of unshakable understanding of not-self.

Socrates, if I recall correctly, has proposed that there are those people who would benefit from a propaedeutic such as this until they gain wisdom.

11

I don’t take issue with “It’s utterly misguided…” on account of the rebirth question. I take issue with its exceptionalism. This way of viewing things feels morally bankrupt.

Not only do I feel that we’re responsible for managing our beliefs; I feel we are in debt to others epistemically as a matter of culture, kamma, and so forth. As such, I owe it to humanity to assess my beliefs with rigor and regularity. (OK, let’s start with my local community.)

In short, we owe something to each other epistemically. Rima Basu influences my thoughts on this most recently.

I should live in a way that aligns with my beliefs. I should rigorously and regularly assess my beliefs to ensure they are invested in wholesome and compassionate aspirations and intentions. I feel that the Buddha’s teachings on rebirth clearly are; even if I’m mainly interested in my own happy rebirth, the means to obtain that are based on wholesome and compassionate actions and intentions in this life.

Besides, beliefs influence how we assign meaning to life. In this way they are closely related to our values. We assess the worthwhileness of life through the lens of what we believe matters. This takes some examination, reflection, and testing. That ends up being a practice, too. In fact, without the occasional clarion call to attend to what matters in life, we naturally lose energy and vitality.

:elephant: :pray:

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Verse 168. The Righteous Are Happy - Here And Hereafter

Rouse yourself, be diligent,
in Dhamma faring well.
Who dwells in Dhamma’s happy
in this birth and the next.


Explanation: Wake up to reality; do not be delude. Live in accordance with reality. The realistic person lives happily in this world and in the next.

Verse 169. Behave According To The Teaching

Fare in Dhamma coursing well,
in evil courses do not fare.
Who dwells in Dhamma’s happy
in this birth and the next.


Explanation: Practice the dhamma to perfection. Do not practice it in a faulty manner. He who follows the teaching in the proper manner will live in peace and comfort both in this world and in the next.

https://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_world.htm

:anjal:

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With Suppabuddha the Leper

SuppabuddhakuṭṭhisuttaUd 5.3

A leper becomes a stream-enterer, dies, and is reborn as a deva.

SuttaCentral

The Gracious One saw the leper Suppabuddha sat in that assembly, and having seen him, this occurred to him: “This one here is able to understand the Dhamma”, and having regard to the leper Suppabuddha he related a gradual talk, that is to say: talk on giving, talk on virtue, talk on heaven, the danger, degradation, and defilement of sensual desires, and the advantages in renunciation—these he explained. When the Gracious One knew that the leper Suppabuddha was of ready mind, malleable mind, unhindered mind, uplifted mind, trusting mind, then he explained the Dhamma teaching the Awakened Ones have discovered themselves: suffering, origination, cessation, path.

SuttaCentral

Having Right View

SammādiṭṭhikasuttaIti 71

This was said by the Buddha, the Perfected One: that is what I heard.

“Mendicants, I’ve seen beings who engaged in good conduct of body, speech, and mind, who did not abuse the noble ones, who held right view and acted accordingly. At the breaking up of the body, after death, they were reborn in a good destination, a heavenly realm.

Now, I don’t say this because I’ve heard it from some other ascetic or brahmin. I only say it because I’ve known, seen, and realized it for myself.”

The Buddha spoke this matter. On this it is said:

“When the mind has been directed right,
and words rightly spoken,
and right bodily deeds have been done,
a person here

learned, doer of good deeds,
though their life may be short,
when their body breaks up, that wise person
is reborn in heaven.”

This too is a matter that was spoken by the Blessed One: that is what I heard.

SuttaCentral

[6] “Furthermore, you should recollect the devas: ‘There are the Devas of the Four Great Kings, the Devas of the Thirty-three, the Devas of the Hours, the Contented Devas, the devas who delight in creation, the devas who have power over the creations of others, the devas of Brahma’s retinue, the devas beyond them. Whatever conviction they were endowed with that—when falling away from this life—they re-arose there, the same sort of conviction is present in me as well. Whatever virtue they were endowed with that—when falling away from this life—they re-arose there, the same sort of virtue is present in me as well. Whatever learning they were endowed with that—when falling away from this life—they re-arose there, the same sort of learning is present in me as well. Whatever generosity they were endowed with that—when falling away from this life—they re-arose there, the same sort of generosity is present in me as well. Whatever discernment they were endowed with that—when falling away from this life—they re-arose there, the same sort of discernment is present in me as well.’ At any time when a disciple of the noble ones is recollecting the conviction, virtue, learning, generosity, and discernment found both in himself and the devas, his mind is not overcome with passion, not overcome with aversion, not overcome with delusion. His mind heads straight, based on the [qualities of the] devas. And when the mind is headed straight, the disciple of the noble ones gains a sense of the goal, gains a sense of the Dhamma, gains joy connected with the Dhamma. In one who is joyful, rapture arises. In one who is rapturous, the body grows calm. One whose body is calmed experiences ease. In one at ease, the mind becomes concentrated.

“Mahanama, you should develop this recollection of the devas while you are walking, while you are standing, while you are sitting, while you are lying down, while you are busy at work, while you are resting in your home crowded with children.”

SuttaCentral

:anjal:

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It’s okay to let people have beliefs. If one wants a mind free of beliefs that’s okay too. :pray:

15

If I may ask out of genuine curiosity, what are the most significant beliefs a Buddhist might hold that differ from verifiable experiential truth?

Hopefully the question makes sense. Surely you can believe what you wish, of course. All the more credit to the power of your mind. :grin:

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It’s okay to be a Buddhist and not know everything. In fact only a Buddha is Omniscient (or perhaps an Arhat too, but there is some debate about this between Theravada and Mahayana, so one could say: “A Buddha that is an Arhat…”)