Is sammā-samādhi solely jhāna, and is jhāna required for the attainment of Nibbāna?

For sammā-samādhi (and this is also discussed by Ven. Anālayo), there seems to be other aspects of sammā-samādhi other than just the jhānas—although they are probably a large portion of it. Those could very possibly forms of concentration such as unification of the mind (cittassekaggatā) and neighbourhood concentration (upacāra-samādhi).

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I think there is a mixing up regarding the issue of avoiding jhāna—which might be equating jhāna to meditation (bhāvanā).

While it seems jhāna isn’t needed to attain Stream-Entry, I, and I don’t think anyone here, is advocating not to meditate. Personally, I think it doesn’t make a lot of sense of trying to aim for jhāna, which is wanting and expecting a mind state (it’s a bit like aiming to reach Stream-Entry or Nibbāna). However, I do beleive meditation is very important and should be practiced as much as one can, but I don’t believe that mindfulness of breathing (ānāpānasati) is the best way to go about it, especially for someone who hasn’t much developed the other factors of the path—and therefore doesn’t have a good basis for jhāna—or who has little knowledge of the teachings.

What I think is good, however, is to meditate on objects of meditation of the Satipaṭṭhāna (other than simply mindfulness of breathing). Satipaṭṭhāna is of most importance and weight in the teachings. In both the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta (M 10) and the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (D 22), the Buddha ends by saying:

So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘Bhikkhus, this is the direct path for the purification of beings, for the surmounting of sorrow and lamentation, for the disappearance of pain and grief, for the attainment of the true way, for the realisation of Nibbāna — namely, the four foundations of mindfulness.’
M 10, Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta—The Foundations of Mindfulness (transl. Bhikkhu Bodhi)

The objects of meditation in the Satipaṭṭhāna are subjects such as contemplation of the body (kāyanupassanā); analysis of the 4 physical elements (dhātuvavatthāna); contemplation of feelings (vedanānupassanā); contemplation of states of mind (cittānupassanā)—which is contemplating arising greed/hate/delusion, lack of these, concentrated/unconcentrated mind, and others; contemplation of mind-objects (dhammānupassanā)—which is contemplating the hindrandes, the aggregates, the sense-doors, the fetters, etc.; and others as well.

These, I find, are not only highly interesting, but there is no goal of attaining anything. It is simply developing and understanding the mind. And most importantly, not only does it develop samādhi, but it also develops widsom (paññā) and understanding of the teachings, which are important to develop the faculty of faith (saddhā) to then put strenious effort in developing the other factors of the path, especially those having to do with morality (sīla)—of which, all of this, in the end, will benefit one’s meditation, and result in jhāna.

So basically, diligently meditate and develop the path, don’t aim/expect jhāna (or any mind state) and eventually you’ll enter jhāna.

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For those interested in the translations of the 3 Chinese sources cited by Bhikkhu Bodhi, here’s doctoral dissertation that wades deep into the issue -

https://www.google.com.sg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjgs778uY3YAhXIpI8KHdodDX8QFggnMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftkwen.sutta.org%2FA%20Study%20of%20Sukkihavipassaka%20in%20Pali%20Buddhism_final.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3Wqa3KBXmecHaiznV4Bg3M

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Thank god Bhante @Brahmali is here!

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Nooooo … please don’t thank god, ever! If you do, someone (me?) might get fired for being an exceptionally bad teacher. They might forcibly remove my robe and excommunicate me once and for all. Please have compassion. :grinning:

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Many people do not understand this simple truth.
You can’t practice Noble Eightfold Path in isolation. You have to see whole path as one. If you practice one you practice all.

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True. Hence me quoting these suttas from above:

I dont think this quite right. You can easily practice, say… morality and not get any of the others, or jhana for that matter, individually, and not arrive at sotapatti magga.

with metta

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It is the domino effect. When you have the right view the rest falling to Their own place. Without right view others won’t be right.

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I’m inclined to agree!

It’s quite interesting that Stream Entry does not take place within a Jhana; it’s impossible owing to a person’s seclusion from the kāmas during a jhana, making listening to a discourse impossible.

However, take a look at a Stream Entry pericope -

Yadā maṃ bhagavā aññāsi kallacittaṃ muducittaṃ vinīvara­ṇa­cittaṃ udaggacittaṃ pasannacittaṃ, atha yā buddhānaṃ sāmukkaṃsikā dhammadesanā taṃ pakāsesi— dukkhaṃ, samudayaṃ, nirodhaṃ, magga.

When the Blessed One knew that my mind was pliant, softened, rid of hindrances, uplifted, and confident, he revealed that Dhamma teaching special to the Buddhas: suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path.

Compare this to what appears to a canonical description of “neighbourhood concentration” found in AN 9.35 (pls use Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation if you have it) -

Yato kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu taṃ tadeva samāpattiṃ samāpajjatipi vuṭṭhātipi, tassa mudu cittaṃ hoti kammaññaṃ. Mudunā kammaññena cittena appamāṇo samādhi hoti subhāvito. So appamāṇena samādhinā subhāvitena yassa yassa abhiñ­ñā­sacchi­karaṇī­yassa dhammassa cittaṃ abhininnāmeti abhiñ­ñā­sacchi­kiriyāya tatra tatreva sak­khi­bhabba­taṃ pāpuṇāti sati sati āyatane.

When a monk enters & emerges from this or that very attainment, his mind is pliant & malleable. With his pliant, malleable mind, limitless concentration is well developed. With his concentration well developed & limitless, then whichever of the six higher knowledges he turns his mind to know & realize, he can witness them for himself whenever there is an opening.
correcting in bold the ATI translation

Can you see what’s shared in common between the Stream Entrant’s concentration and the super-advanced meditator’s post-Jhanic concentration? It’s the “pliability” (mudu) of the mind. I suspect it is this quality that allows for the unification of the mind that is mentioned in other Right Concentration definitions.

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We have to incorporate Noble Tenfold Path to understand stream Entry. That is the Right Knowledge and Right Release.

Good point!

Yes, it does seem like an issue of pliancy. Jhanas fixes ones mind. Nibbana (sotapatti magga) occurs ‘whenever there is an opening’, after coming out of jhana. This doesn’t rule out the ability to perform vipassana while absorbed in a jhanic attainment, though but is highly advanced practice to perform correctly.

The issue of whether access concentration is adequate, without prior experience of jhana, remains- it seems to me when considering Suppabuddha the leper and others mentioned above (in my post)

with metta

The issue of whether jhanas need to have been previously attained, remains- to access access concentration!

I think not. The Buddha seems to be able to either 1) bring about or 2) utilize, a concentration free from hindrances for this purpose.

It is of course, then goes without saying that as @Sylvester mentioned that the post jhanic levels of concentration would suffice for this task. Jhana, when developed, is extremely helpful for stream entry.

with metta

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In addition to Erik_ODonnells quote from MN 64, here is a passage from AN 6.68:

Bhikkhus, (1) it is impossible that a bhikkhu who delights in company, who is delighted with company, who is devoted to delight in company; who delights in a group, who is delighted with a group, who is devoted to delight in a group, will find delight in solitude when he is alone. (2) It is impossible that one who does not find delight in solitude when he is alone will acquire the object of the mind. (3) It is impossible that one who does not acquire the object of the mind will fulfill right view. (4) It is impossible that one who does not fulfill right view will fulfill right concentration. (5) It is impossible that one who does not fulfill right concentration will abandon the fetters. (6) Without having abandoned the fetters, it is impossible that one will realize nibbāna.

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There are only two ways to get to stream-entry:
1 - being a samaṇa on alms & rags, with faith in the Buddha, Dhamma, etc. (SN 55.1)
2 - destruction of the three fetters. Of wich “sakkāya-diṭṭhi” is concerned with getting rid of the “mine” part.

If one understands what “I” and “Mine” means in Buddhism; then one has done 90% of the understanding on how to leave the kama loka.
For, to get to nibbāna, you have first to leave the kama loka; then the rupa loka loka; then the arupa loka.

Nibbāna is beyond “neither-inquiries-nor-non-inquiries” ( aka “neither-perception-nor-non-perception” ) about this paṭiccasamuppāda (Dhamma).
Or should I say more properly, that nibbāna is beyond “neither inquiries” about paṭiccasamuppāda, nor “non-inquiries” about something else.
For the transcendence of the spheres of experience (āyatanāni), are usually done (in Buddhism,) by getting rid of something - in this case non-inquiries about paṭiccasamuppāda - and looking for something else - in this case the avyakata (the unsaid - which is out of paṭiccasamuppāda).

Dhamma, or ध dha (or √ dhā) - √ मन् man - being a somewhat "performed & established “thinking” , in Indian philosophy at large.
Paṭiccasamuppāda being one of these धर्मन् dharmán (dharma).
“Neither-inquiries” about paṭiccasamupāda - (and the assumptions attached to them); as well as an inquiry beyond paṭiccasamupāda - is the last and highest of the higher jhānas.

So you have to get there to get to nibbāna.

The first big step is to get out of the kama loka.
And that is done by getting rid of the “mine” and the “I”. See SN 22.89 (and SN 22.47), and get a good grasp of what “I” and “Mine” mean.


Realising the “Mine” part has nothing to do with concentration. It has to do with understanding that khandhas & ayatanas are not “ours” (SN 22.59, SN 22.3, SN 35.138). That we are just made to be felt (SN 12.37). It is about paññā - It is about discernment.
There is no continuity of “self” between nāmarūpa and saḷāyatana. So it is ridiculous to want to appropriate the khandhas of nāmarūpa (as “mine”) - as much as it is ridiculous to want to appropriate the ayatanas of saḷāyatana (as “mine”).
Buddhism is not like late Vedism, where Ka/Prajapati is the continuous Self/self all along. Where the Self, khandhas and ayatanas are “I” and “mine”.
There is nothing in Buddhism that belong to Ka (Kāya) - Neither continuity of Self/self; nor bliss.
What we experience sensorially is not “ours”, says Buddha.


The second part, as seen in SN 22.89, is to get rid of the “I”. And this time, it involves being aware that the dhammas, made out of the khandhas (that are not ours), are impermanent.
To get to that, one must gain concentration and gain a citta, caused to become one.

Note:
Here, bhikkhus, the noble disciple, having undertaken the relinquishing of the support, gains concentration and gains a citta, caused to become one. This is called the faculty of concentration (SN 48.9).
Idha, bhikkhave, ariyasāvako vossaggārammaṇaṃ karitvā labhati samādhiṃ, labhati cittassa ekaggataṃ—idaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, samādhindriyaṃ.
Here, we have the particular case of a genitive absolute; with nouns (samādhiṃ & citassa,) and a participle (ekaggataṃ), both inflected in the genitive.

Samādhi is that pro-active meditative oneness of concentration that helps get to the oneness of the citta.

Getting rid of the “I” is the passage from samadhi to vipassana. From the pro-active" meditation to the “contemplative” meditation.
https://justpaste.it/zcue2

This is the moment when the citta gets transcended (liberated from mano), in the second jhāna (cetaso ekodibhāva).
Then vipassana can settle in.
Vipassana, that is to say the meditative concentration free of the dross of the sensory “world” (SN 35.107 & SN 12.44). JustPaste.it - Share Text & Images the Easy Way
This is when the citta gets rid of its impurity (viz. get rid of the tie with the purely sensory orchestrator of khandhas and ayatanas, that is mano - https://suttacentral.net/en/mn43/21), and become one, and become “mudu”. AN 3.101

This is the end of the kama loka and the entrance in the factors of enlightenment per se; that is to say, the entrance in the rūpa loka.


And yes! Jhānas, particularly the higher ones, are necessary to reach nibbāna.

Liberation by discernment (paññavimutti), and liberation of citta (cetovimutti) are not nibbāna.
As one can see above, paññavimutti is about the “mine”; while cetovimutti is about the “I”.
When one has discerned that the khandhas and ayatanas are not “his”; and that dhammas, made of those, are impermanent; then one passes through the higher jhānas of the rupa loka (viz. somewhat third; and fourth Jhānas).

Then one has still to jhāna (“make an end of”) each sphere left, to get to the arupa-loka.
Each particular jhāna (absorption) carries its own jhāna (“making an end of” something). For jhāna has two meanings indeed.

The complete transcending of perceptions of form (matter), and the vanishing of perceptions (based) upon the organs of senses [internal āyatanāni] (viz. paṭighasaññānaṃ atthaṅgamā) - and the unstriving with the mind (manasa/mano) to perceptions of manifoldness (lit. (what is) differentlythan one) (nānattasaññānaṃ amanasikārā) - is the passage from therūpa, to the arūpa loka. And that takes place in the 5th jhāna.

And lastly, one must get rid of each of the arupa loka spheres - to reach the last higher jhāna. For nibbāna is beyond the sphere of neither-inquiries-nor-non-inquiries (aka “neither-perception-nor-non-perception”) .

When he meditates in such a way, the devas along with Indra, Brahmā, and Prajāpati worship the excellent thoroughbred person from afar, saying:

‘Homage to you, O thoroughbred person!
Homage to you, O supreme person!
We ourselves do not understand
What you meditate in dependence on.’
AN 11.9

Ajhan Brahmali, you won’t get fired, but commended for being exceptionally good! :slightly_smiling_face:

With metta

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Well, it’s certainly reassuring to have the support of virtuous and intelligent people!

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Hi Samseva,

Yes, it is a requirement:

Dutiya - agāravasuttaṃ
‘‘So vata, bhikkhave, bhikkhu agāravo appatisso asabhāgavuttiko ‘sabrahmacārīsu ābhisamācārikaṃ dhammaṃ paripūressatī’ti netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. ‘Ābhisamācārikaṃ dhammaṃ aparipūretvā sekhaṃ dhammaṃ paripūressatī’ti netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. ‘Sekhaṃ dhammaṃ aparipūretvā sīlakkhandhaṃ paripūressatī’ti netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. ‘Sīlakkhandhaṃ aparipūretvā samādhikkhandhaṃ paripūressatī’ti netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. ‘Samādhikkhandhaṃ aparipūretvā paññākkhandhaṃ paripūressatī’ti netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati.

  1. Irreverent (2)

“(1) Bhikkhus, when a bhikkhu is irreverent and undeferential, and his behavior is uncongenial to his fellow monks, it is impossible for him to fulfill the factor of proper conduct. (2) Without fulfilling the factor of proper conduct, it is impossible for him to fulfill the factor of a trainee. (3) Without fulfilling the factor of a trainee, it is impossible for him to fulfill the aggregate of virtuous behavior. (4) Without fulfilling the aggregate of virtuous behavior, it is impossible for him to fulfill the aggregate of concentration. (5) Without fulfilling the aggregate of concentration, it is impossible for him to fulfill the aggregate of wisdom."

SuttaCentral

As I understand, “fulfilling the aggregate of concentration” means here the attainment of at least first jhāna.

There’s just a handful of instances when listeners of the Buddha attained Nibbāna by the end of the discourse:

Aditta-pariyaya SN 35.28
Chachakka MN 148
Mahāpuṇṇama MN 3.1.9 (109)
Anatta-lakkhana SN 22.59
Dvayatanupassana Snp III.12
Bahiya sutta Udana 1.10
Tiṃsamatta SN 2.4.3
Aggikkhandhopama AN 7.7.8

In all of these cases the listeners were highly trained.

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If I may ask, why do you think so?

I have this concern also. Jhana is so so incredibly useful in the path and it does say it is Right Concentration in the Suttas that not specifically practicing towards Jhana could cause a stopping short and lead people to miss using the big hammer in their practice for Nibbana.

I think we can get into the paralysis of analysis with this and it can lead one to think, “ah, my meditation is good enough. What I’m doing is right.” When the Buddha was very specific in teaching us to practice Jhana to release ourselves from Samsara.

What if we don’t practice towards Jhana and in our next human life the Buddha’s teachings are gone and there is no one to show us that Jhana is even a practice at all? This should be a very real concern because we do not know what unripe kamma we have waiting in the queue.

I think it is important to practice in the best way possible and Jhana is recommended by the Buddha as super duper important so we could be doing ourselves not only a disservice, but could be making a grave mistake of not taking advantage of what we have been given in this life to save ourselves from countless potential rebirths filled with oceans of more tears.

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My point is just that you cannot become a stream-enterer without “the knowledge and vision of things as they really are”. Stream-entry is seeing the Dhamma, gaining unshakeable confidence in the teachings of the Buddha. The essential part of this is seeing the five khandhas as being subject to the three characteristics of impermanence, suffering, and non-self.

“Knowledge and vision of things as they really” does not necessarily imply stream-entry, but stream-entry always implies “knowledge and vision of things as they really”.

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