Is Smoking considered a breach of precepts for monks and lay persons?

That’s not categorically true. This is one area where professional psychological advice follows with the buddha’s advice - ascribing labels should be done by a knowledgeable person with extended, careful, direct experience of the one being labeled, not by someone lacking those characteristics. In America, the DSM-V has 11 diagnostic criteria, plus the standard catch-all that something is only a disorder if it is causing disorder in someone’s life.

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Cannabis has no addictive properties. Life is mind altering. Many many people claim enhanced productivity. I would ask that you reference your claims for they are unfounded by science and my experience.

Many apologies, I should’ve said something like: “for the vast majority, if you’re smoking on a regular basis, then it is very likely that you would be diagnosed with a medical condition (not a ‘habit’).”

Many apologies. It seemed like you were downgrading the smokers affliction because you put it next to a complaint that their condition was causing you discomfort (you felt that you had to keep “staying out in the cold” to keep the smokers company). If that wasn’t your intention, I apologise.

I’m my experience the vast majority of ex smokers (myself included) became non smokers by means other than the Noble Eightfold Path, and to be honest, it seems a bit of a blunt instrument for that purpose. Most ex smokers probably haven’t even heard of Dhamma. :grinning:

Earlier you suggested that there were allowances for those who e.g. had a headache that was incurable using other medication. I was just suggesting that ‘withdrawal’ is on par with, if not worse than a persistent headache.

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Ok but please don’t underestimate the power that proper mental training has on issues of this kind. Even if they seem to have mainly physical manifestations, the mind plays a major role.

Ah ok, good point.
I would have no problems if someone with a smoking habit later ordained and in order to taper off were allowed increasingly smaller doses.
But continuing smoking or taking it up while a monastic I would still consider a dukkata, personally.

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Thank you, and your point is well taken. It’s a point I thought to raise earlier, but wasn’t quite sure how best to do so - it’s a tricky topic!

I think you’re cutting yourself a little short. Right intention is right intention whether you think of it that way or not. Same for right effort etc. These aren’t exclusively found in Buddhism.

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Isn’t Samsara addictive or something like that? We should probably go read some good Pali Suttas.

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According to healthline.com and my own personal experience, cannabis does have addictive properties. It is mostly a mental addiction, like any substance that can get a person “high”.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), 1 in 10 Americans who use cannabis will become addicted. That number jumps to 1 in 6 if you begin using marijuana before the age of 18.

There are also physical withdrawal symptoms associated with quitting cannabis use. These are mild compared to other drugs like heroin or alcohol (a person could die from alcohol withdrawal).

  • diminished appetite
  • mood changes
  • irritability
  • sleep difficulties, including insomnia
  • headaches
  • loss of focus
  • cravings for marijuana
  • sweating, including cold sweats
  • chills
  • increased feelings of depression
  • stomach problems
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This is not the place to argue about this, so I will only say that my 50 year involvement as an advocate, an activist and a user completely contradict your contention.
Peace, and Metta to you my friend!

I saw someone posting incorrect information about health and addiction, which could end up getting people hurt.

I posted facts from a medical website which contradicted that person’s opinion.

The end.

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Smoke is used for herbal remedies. I saw a monk once use smoke for his eyes.
As for single and double tubes for inhaling smoke, these tubes are meant for the nose.
Now the “double tube” might make sense to you.

Ajahn Thanissaro does not smoke himself, but said he would allow cigarettes. Beetle nut is very common in the Dhammayut tradition. Ajahn Mahaboowa and the “Arahant Fathers” are rarely seen without it dripping from their mouths. There is a famous picture of a group of these famous group of monks with red stains on their faces.

As an ex-smoker, I would not say cigarettes are intoxicating. At best, there is a little bit of a head rush if you go through the trouble of not having a cigarette for a few days and then light one up after that. Coffee or Chocolate are probably more intoxicating. It is merely an addictive harmful habit which is against the Buddhist ideal to reduce or remove craving. There are no doctors I know of who would prescribe actual smoking. If Nicotine were any medical benefit, it is available in various other less harmful forms.

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@faujidoc1

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