Is the birth of deva similar to the one of a human?

Hi all ,

anyone knows how does the birth took place for a deva compare to human ?

The way I understand they are reborn spontaneously. (opapaatika)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn55/sn55.024.wlsh.html

Hi I took the liberty of making the topic’s title clearer.

On your question, as per above, birth in realms of subtle form (rupa loka) and formlessness (arupa loka) seem to not require a physical base for it to arise. This is definitely the case of our realm of experience, the sensuous realm (kama loka).

I am curious how much insight does the sutta provide or not on that peculiarity.

A link that may help is this one:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html

:anjal:

They are born like this:

Opapātika

adjective
arisen or reborn without visible cause (i.e. without parents), spontaneous rebirth (Kvu trsl. 2832), apparitional rebirth

with metta

[quote]“Sāriputta, there are these four kinds of generation. What are the four? Egg-born generation, womb-born generation, moisture-born generation, and spontaneous generation.

“What is egg-born generation? There are these beings born by breaking out of the shell of an egg; this is called egg-born generation. What is womb-born generation? There are these beings born by breaking out from the caul; this is called womb-born generation. What is moisture-born generation? There are these beings born in a rotten fish, in a rotten corpse, in rotten porridge, in a cesspit, or in a sewer; this is called moisture-born generation. What is spontaneous generation? There are gods and denizens of hell and certain human beings and some beings in the lower worlds; this is called spontaneous generation. These are the four kinds of generation.

MN 12[/quote]
It’s interesting to note that I haven’t come across a sutta that mentions a deva being the offspring of another deva or anyone for that matter…Sounds like devas don’t have parents! Imagine how that would feel.

I could very well be wrong though and if someone knows of a sutta that mentions devas’ parents, please provide it.

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Do we have more information on what would be those certain human beings born spontaneously?

That makes me thing of mythical figures like Padmasambhava of the Vajrayana tradition. If memory does not fail, he is said to have been born spontaneously from within a lotus flower - hence his name, which means lotus-born.

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According to Hindu myth,
Lord Shiva has two sons ,
Lord Ganesha
and Lord Murugan.
Lord Saka also has children .
Naga King also has children .

I believe it’s not a terribly common occurrence. Or at least it’s not common enough to jeopardize the career prospects of obstetricians and midwives.

In fact the commentary to the Mahāsīhanāda Sutta has to go all the way back to the time of Kassapa Buddha to find a single example of an apparitionally generated human. The person in question was the Buddha’s disciple Pokkharasāti in a former life:

In the time of Kassapa Buddha he was a brahmin versed in the three Vedas who, having heard the doctrine and given alms, was reborn in the deva world. Thereafter, scorning birth in the womb of a woman, he sprang to life in a lotus, which grew in a pond in Himavā. An ascetic saw the lotus, adopted the boy, and taught him the Vedas. The king was pleased with his great learning, and gave him Ukkaṭṭhā as a mark of great favour. The name of Pokkharasāti was given to him owing to his birth in a lotus.

Oviparously-generated humans are another story. It’s reported that there were two of these as recently as the 3rd century BCE. Apparently a kinnarī (i.e. a half-woman, half-bird creature) called Kuntī would lay gigantic eggs after copulating with her human husband. Out of one of them emerged the future Tissa Thera and out of another his younger brother Sumitta Thera.

Sumitta Thera.– He was the younger son of Kuntikinnarī. He was ordained, with his brother Tissa, by Mahāvaruṇa and attained to Arahantship. Tissa died from the bite of a venomous insect because it proved impossible to get any ghee, though Sumitta went about seeking for some. Sumitta died, while walking in meditation in the Caṅkama-hall, in the eighth year of Asoka’s reign. Mhv.v.213‑27.
(from the DPPN)

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Not yet:

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/06/02/480466940/scientists-say-they-hope-to-create-a-human-genome-in-the-lab

:relaxed:

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

I had a friend with not
ordinary eyes , told some
at lower realm ,
the deva born out from
flowers and trees .

The Devas are made from “fine” material. Like smoke. It could be like the example here.

There is no biological structure involved with blood, muscle and skeleton etc. So that means they probably do not need a biological process to give birth.

There are some myth saying
The deva blood
Is white , milk colour or blue .

The early texts don’t much concern themselves with these minutiae.

In the commentaries the terms ‘son’ and ‘daughter’ in the celestial realms are treated as matters of convention rather than biology. They are applied to those reborn in the deva world dependent upon the location of their apparitional arising. If new devas or devīs apparitionally arise inside the garments of an existing deva or devī, then the convention is to call them the ‘sons’ or ‘daughters’ of the one in whose garments they arise. If a devī apparitionally arises in a deva’s bed, then she is called his ‘wife’; if at the foot of the bed, his ‘servant’, &c.

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But apparently they can be young’uns.

Then, after giving the householder Anātha­piṇḍik­a this advice, the venerable Sāriputta and the venerable Ānanda rose from their seats and departed. Soon after they had left, the householder Anātha­piṇḍik­a died and reappeared in the Tusita heaven.

Then, when the night was well advanced, Anātha­piṇḍik­a, now a young god of beautiful appearance, went to the Blessed One, illuminating the whole of Jeta’s Grove. (MN143)

Also, I don’t know if this has a bearing on things:

Moggallāna to Māra: It happened once, Evil One, that I was a Māra named Dūsı̄, and I had a sister named Kālı̄. You were her son, so you were my nephew. (MN 50)

Also, there are the famed daughters of Māra.

As an aside, you know how the devas’ lifespans last for aeons… does that mean there are devas around today that may have been in the presence of the Buddha? Do you think any of them might remember any of the suttas? It would be quite a boost to EBT research.

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The Deva do not have blood because they are not born of a womb.

Further to the above video, this from the same person.

“I aint good enough” -> a suffering Peta?

The being occupying a tree in a cemetery -> A tree diety ala Karaneyametha Sutha?

Check this out ->

Search “sls camera footage” on youtube for more.

@Rajitha

Perhaps not blood like us,
A kind of " liquid " running in the body
.

I think the first human after the world destruction has to be spontaneously born humans.