Is the usage of social media and data a right livelihood, or is the opposite?

The Watercooler
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Good day people, hope you’re doing fine.

I’ve been concerned these days about social media and data: I find it scaring that those enterprises use the data we provide in order to provide MORE content, MORE ads, and most importantly, MORE distraction (my personal opinion here). I know there wasn’t social media in times of the Buddha, but I was wondering if there’re any suttas that can have a relation to the topic of social media and, specifically, the usage of data to provide more content; especially when it comes to right livelihood.

Hope this topic is relevant to the practice. If so, I’d really like to hear from you; may your words (and the words of the Buddha, if possible) be constructive and lead to a strong relationship with the world and its wordly conditions.

Blessings.

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I think that you’ll find that ordinary people’s concerns and talk of the day in the Buddha’s time wasn’t any different than social media today. Check out AN 10.69 and you’ll see. Does this sound familiar:

“…talk about kings, bandits, and ministers; talk about armies, threats, and wars; talk about food, drink, clothes, and beds; talk about garlands and fragrances; talk about family, vehicles, villages, towns, cities, and countries; talk about women and heroes; street talk and well talk; talk about the departed; motley talk; tales of land and sea…”

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Nice one! I think its important to note that the quote refers to “low talk”. As such it would be discouraged by the precept covering wrong speech?

I deleted my previous reply by mistake!

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Thank you so much for sharing this sutta. Now there’s one question I have: now that we know that there’s low talk (like the examples listed above), then what could we do (as lay people) if those topics are always arising?

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This Sutta is for Monks. Not for a householder who live in regular householder life, and nor in seclusion retreat.

several mendicants sat together in the assembly hall. They engaged in all kinds of low talk, such as talk about kings, bandits, and ministers; talk about armies, threats, and wars; talk about food, drink, clothes, and beds; talk about garlands and fragrances; talk about family, vehicles, villages, towns, cities, and countries; talk about women and heroes; street talk and well talk; talk about the departed; motley talk; tales of land and sea; and talk about being reborn in this or that place.

for a householder who still live at home

“Sir, we are laypeople who enjoy sensual pleasures and living at home with our children. We use sandalwood imported from Kāsi, we wear garlands, fragrance, and makeup, and we accept gold and currency. May the Buddha please teach us the Dhamma in a way that leads to our welfare and happiness in this life and in future lives.”

Byagghapajja, these four things lead to the welfare and happiness of a gentleman in this life.

What four?

Accomplishment in initiative, protection, good friendship, and balanced finances.

And what is accomplishment in initiative?

It’s when a gentleman earns a living by means such as farming, trade, raising cattle, archery, government service, or one of the professions. He understands how to go about these things in order to complete and organize the work. This is called accomplishment in initiative.

…

And what is accomplishment in balanced finances?

It’s when a gentleman, knowing his income and expenditure, balances his finances, being neither too extravagant nor too frugal.

He thinks, ‘In this way my income will exceed my expenditure, not the reverse.’ It’s like an appraiser or their apprentice who, holding up the scales, knows that it’s low by this much or high by this much. In the same way, a gentleman, knowing his income and expenditure, balances his finances, being neither too extravagant nor too frugal. He thinks, ‘In this way my income will exceed my expenditure, not the reverse.’ If a gentleman has little income but an opulent life, people will say: ‘This gentleman eats their wealth like a fig-eater!’ If a gentleman has a large income but a spartan life, people will say: ‘This gentleman is starving themselves to death!’ But a gentleman, knowing his income and expenditure, leads a balanced life, neither too extravagant nor too frugal, thinking, ‘In this way my income will exceed my expenditure, not the reverse.’

This is called accomplishment in balanced finances

…

Many of sutta for householder who is still new in Buddha teaching, not ready for total let go of family. Buddha taught them precepts, and how even to balance budget in life like above and hearing true dhamma first. Not right away live like a monk.

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It’s interesting raising cattle is there, elsewhere I thought that was listed as wrong livelihood, I wonder why or if buddha said that and would that apply to someone wishing to insight into noble yruths

With Metta

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If one reads SN 55.7, they’ll see the Buddha directly addressing householders about conduct and Right speech, including silliness and nonsense (idle chatter) in the same vein as he instructed monastics in AN 10.176 and AN 2.11. There are lots of suttas about Right Speech. Right Speech is early in the N8FP for good reason. It’s an action to curb one’s attention away from sensual and frivolous matters, to incline the mind towards wholesome thinking and living.

Householders and lay people do converse and speak about lots of things disconnected from the Dhamma, that’s part of living as a non-monsatic. The Buddha didn’t disparage householders and lay people, he encouraged them to follow the teachings in a way that inclined them to live wholesomely. But social media is specifically designed to hook a person’s mind into endlessly following drivel and sensuality. We know that it’s intentionally made to be addictive and harmful. I think it’s wise for people to understand the downside and danger of social media.

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How can we renunciate to social media as a way to develop renunciation?
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The Buddha spoke extensively about the four nutriments (āhāra) of life. One of these is viññāṇāhāra, or mental consciousness as food. We must ask ourselves: what are we feeding our minds?

Political news? Which is greed, hate, & delusion at scale.
Streaming, gaming, doomscrolling? Which are the opiates for consciousness.
OR Else?

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What sutta is this please?

We might not be monks but surely we can aspire to be like monks in our striving. As you mention precepts, wrong speech is still wrong speech regardless of the audience, no?

Metta Joe.C :folded_hands:

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Buddha never ask a householder to be aspire as a monk. But to be like an anagami householder such as Citta and Hatthaka of Alavi. AN 2.132

A faithful layman would rightly aspire:May I be like the householder Citta and Hatthaka of Āḷavī!’ These are a standard and a measure for my male lay followers, that is, the householder Citta and Hatthaka of Āḷavī.”

> A faithful laywoman would rightly aspire:‘May I be like the laywomen Khujjuttarā and Veḷukaṇṭakī, Nanda’s mother!’These are a standard and a measure for my female lay disciples, that is, the laywomen Khujjuttarā and Veḷukaṇṭakī, Nanda’s mother.”

Still a very high standard. Because one of anagami qualities is as follows:

Give up wife for others. AN 8.21.

> I had four teenage wives.And I went to them and said:‘Sisters, I’ve undertaken the five training rules with chastity as fifth.If you wish, you may stay here, enjoy my wealth, and do good deeds. Or you can return to your own families.Or would you prefer if I gave you to another man?’When I said this, my eldest wife said to me:‘Master, please give me to such-and-such a man.’Then I summoned that man. Taking my wife with my left hand and a ceremonial vase with my right, I presented her to that man with the pouring of water.But I can’t recall getting upset while giving away my teenage wife.This is the third incredible and amazing quality found in me.

Regarding right speech, i didnt see any from OP say he will misled others from the data that can harm himself or others in process. So where is the harming of the action then?

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:confused: As we can see patriarchy alive and well 2500 years ago too. That’s not how imagine the anagami behaves today they would be in conformity with social role and duty and care and consider their role in society and perhaps the message here is they would not be one to exhibit possesiveness or ownership & cede to preferences of the other - the care for the needs of themselves and those around them. Also it might be that’s baseline sila these days, if someone wants to break off a partnership that way, without posessiveness or jealousy etc. Like I would hope people see partnership like to take care of needs of another, humility of ceding to their wishes and so on. eek. Also age appropriate relations.

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