Is there any heaven being become monk?

Hi friends ,

Is there any Sutta state
that heavenly
life ever becomes monk ?

I am not sure what you are asking here @James2997 (I assume that just like me English is not your first language).

Are you after any EBT in which non-human beings are ordained or specifically heavenly beings, such as devas?

@Gabriel_L

Yes , deva I meant .

I am not sure about devas but I am aware that somewhere in the Vinaya we have the record of non-human beings like nagas getting into a human form and being ordained.

The Buddha did not like that and hence the tradition of confirming whether the bhikkhu or samanera candidate is himself a human being at the very beginning of the ordination procedure! :smile:

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@Gabriel_L

What Do you think of about
dreams of the some deva and
Ordained deva , seems they
Even Can communicate with us
In the dreams ?

Have no idea! :sweat:

P.S.: why do you
break your
text this
way? :thinking:

Sorry , what I meant is
if I had Friend who dreams
of deva, and even dreams
of deva In monk form !
Of course , this may sound peculiar .

So, i want to know whether Sutta
Has any saying on this ?

[quote=“James2997, post:1, topic:5243”]
Is there any Sutta state
that heavenly
life ever becomes monk ?
[/quote]Can’t only human beings ordain?

A deva could possibly take human form and ordain, but it would be a step backward since most of them were ariyas reborn in the pure realms. I could be wrong though.

Sometimes our dream are our desires. There were people who became monks because they wanted to go to heaven (mistakenly), in the suttas. Maybe your friend wants to go to heaven as well as be a monk!

The immediately higher deva realms are sensual realms and higher than that the brahma realms are likely to be quite blissful. I don’t think there is any mention of ‘rag’ robes in those heavenly realms.

With metta

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In this sutta it says:

when he dies he reappears in conjunction with the Abhassara devas. an4.123

Does that mean humans live alongside devas in the 4 realms mentioned in that sutta? I don’t really understand it. Or do they become devas?

[quote=“DaoYaoTao, post:9, topic:5243, full:true”]

A deva could possibly take human form and ordain, but it would be a step backward since most of them were ariyas reborn in the pure realms. I could be wrong though.
[/quote]There is already a myth about a nāga ordaining, who was eventually found out. Such stories are designed for these inquiries, I suspect.

Also, I think a deva emanating as a human is not the same as a human being who has had a “human-jāti”. This deva who emanated, after all has had a theoretical “deva-jāti”, that is, even if the form is human, in such a case, the deva who emanated has still had a deva-jāti, not a human birth, so they do not qualify as a human, if we take the “realms of rebirth” literally. This is only my responce, I do not claim to represent Buddha obv.

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Probably the Vinaya should be modified a little to allow ordination of those not fitting into traditional human/deva roles, at least in western monasteries.

In the suttas devas usually appear in deva form (radiating light and illuminating the surroundings) and most of them seem to be interested in the Dhamma and capable of practicing it in their own realms (if they dont get distracted by the superior pleasures available there).

Pure Land Buddhism is a branch of Mahayana, in the suttas the Pure Abodes are form realms non-returners get reborn in. They achieve arahantship right there without returning to the lower sensual realms. I seem to remember only one case of a non-retuner being popping in to the human world and getting scolded for it by a monk (perhaps someone can help find this sutta), most of the devas who visit monks or the Buddha seem to be coming from the sensual deva realms.

Basically existence in human form ceases and another existence in deva form arises. Or to put it simpler - you get reborn as a heavenly being.

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I can’t recall any suttas where it’s made explicit that a deva is communicating with a human in a dream.

IMO, one should be hold very lightly any meaning one ascribes to the content of dreams.

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While I have not seen any examples of ordained devas, there’s a sutta suggestive that certain devas do continue to practise. See AN 5.166, which alludes to certain mind-made brahmas who do attain and emerge from Cessation. These would be at least Non-Returners.

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According to mahayana Sutta , there are countless deva in monk form in their pure abode whom were practicing dhamma continuously !

ATI has a great chart of the 31 realms. I would suggest that 31 realms are psychological states of being. Mental conditions, where hatred, greed and delusion are like being in some hell-type realm and jhana is like being in heaven. But, of course, I guess, the suttas also give the 31 realms some ontological weight; i.e. they are, according to the suttas, very real places and not just psychological states of being. Perhaps, the 31 realms are both psychological and ontological.

Also, was the Awakened One playing his usual ingenious game of taking existing words and radically altering their meaning, but still keeping an essential feature of the word? Like how he changed good karma from being about rites and rituals to being about moral intention and conduct.

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The bodisatva trained in his abilities to be able to see them according to AN8.64. But I don’t think belief in them is essential either for someone to consider themselves a Buddhist or to progress in the path. It’s just something taken on faith if you trusted what the Buddha said so far. Belief in it may enrich and is a security blanket of sorts. Buddhists who are well versed Noble discipline go on to become enlightened in deva realms if I’m not mistaken. :slight_smile:

With metta

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The Devas continue to practice the dhamma in the pure abodes in Theravada as well. [quote=“Mat, post:19, topic:5243”]
Buddhists who are well versed Noble disciples go on to become enlightened in deva realms if I’m not mistaken.
[/quote]

Correct.

a disciple of the Blessed One, having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, is unbound right in that state of being. an4.123

:anjal:

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