Iti 1 Pali question

Dhamma greetings,
I need help understanding this on itivuttaka 1:

“yena lobhena luddhāse, sattā gacchanti duggatiṁ"

yena lobhena are instrumental as in “with greed”. But luddhase appears very wierd on the dictionaries and in digital pali reader and Pali dictionaries I cant make sense of it.

In a way it appears that lobhena and luddhase are redundant like “with greed greeds”.

My understanding of pali is basic so I appreciate the patiance and help.

Much metta,
Mario

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It is basically ‘luddha’ (past participle; was greedy) with ‘-se’ added to it. It is actually very obscure (and archaic), you can come across this in verse, they usually play with forms of the word to fit the meter. I have listened to B. Bodhi’s explanation on this, and he even consults the Iti commentary, but still it is very unclear. You can listen to it here:

EDIT: On a second thought, laddhā could also be agreeing with sattā (the next line), so literally then it would be ‘by which greed, greedy beings…’


B. Bodhi did a whole series on the Pali of the Iti:

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Yes, as mentioned, it’s an obscure form of the nominative plural, used in verse.
The extra syllable it affords make the siloka metre work.

For this form see Geiger Grammar, section 79.4. He states,
“In the nom. pl. forms in -āse are quite common in the Gāthā-language. They correspond to the Ved. forms in -āsas, and the ending -e instead of -o suggests the influence of Māgadhī. “

It seems to describe the sattā (a much more normal nom. pl. )

A very literal translation:
By that greed/ beings who are greedy/ go to a bad destination.

It seems Ven. Sujato has omitted luddhāse.

Masefield, in a very literal (but rather awkward) translation has, “by means of which greed beings who are greedy go to a miserable destiny”

We see the -āse ending follow through in the next 2 unwholesome roots- dutthāse and mūlhāse.

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My attempt:

Greedy beings go to a bad destination
because of their greed.
Those seeing correctly abandon that greed
with perfect understanding.
Having abandoned it they never come again
to this world.

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Thank you for your response,

the fact that “it shoes infuence of magadhi” points to the fact that it can be a very early source within the pali cannon?
I mean, is the itivuttaka “closer” to the words of the Buddha or at least to the time in wich the teaching were being memorized?

thank you

You’re welcome.

No, I don’t think it’s really possible to know if it is closer or further to the Buddha’s actual words.
Poetry often uses an elevated style, the English poet Edmund Spenser deliberately used an archaic style in his poetry.

Most attempts to describe Pali suttas as early/late are highly speculative.

PS. Note that your Geiger quote is incorrect. What he wrote was, “ suggests the influence of Māgadhī. “

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