SuttaCentral
Thread for discussing John Kelly’s Pāli 2024 (G&K) Class 34 for the class on December 1st / 2nd 2024.
Meeting ID: 829 5896 1475
Passcode: anicca
You will need to remain in the “waiting room” until host lets you in.
Homework preparation for this class:
Again review G&K Lesson XII: Grammar, pp. 169-172
Review G&K Glossary XII-2, pp. 176-178
Complete G&K Lesson XII: Further Readings (Dhammacakkappavattana), pp. 173-176
Quick question about yo cāyaṃ.
Yo cāyaṃ kāmesu kāmasukhallikânuyogo – hīno, gammo, pothujjaniko, anariyo,
anatthasaṃhito,
yo cāyaṃ attakilamathânuyogo – dukkho, anariyo, anatthasaṃhito.
G&K’s footnote defines yo+ayaṃ = “just this.” In our key from @johnk , this seems to take on the meaning of “exclusively this” or “exactly this,” I think?
Just this, devotion to a life of luxury among sensual pleasures, which is low, vulgar, common, ignoble, and disadvantageous;
and just this, devotion to self-mortification, which is painful, ignoble, and disadvantageous.
Could this definition of y’āyaṃ from DPD also work?
I’m trying out a rendering that’s closer to “whatever, whichever”.
“THAT WHICH IS THE LOWLY, VULGAR, COMMON, IGNOBLE & MEANINGLESS PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS IN SENSE PLEASURES.
AND THAT WHICH IS PAINFUL, IGNOBLE, MEANNGLESS PRACTICE OF SELF-MORTIFICATION.”
Yes, indeed, Karuṇā.
Thanks, John!
OK if I check in on a couple more snags with pronouns? also totally okay if we don’t discuss until class.
*Ayaṃ kho sā, bhikkhave, majjhimā paṭipadā Tathāgatena abhisambuddhā
cakkhukaraṇī, ñāṇakaraṇī, upasamāya, abhiññāya, sambodhāya, nibbānāya saṃvattati.
Which would then result in:
THIS noble truth of suffering is THAT which should be comprehended.
Sorry if this is off! I had a hard time figuring out what else taṃ could be doing here.
Let’s see if I’m understanding all your questions here. If not, we’ll talk about it online in class tomorrow.
Is this the demonstrative+personal coupling for emphasis?
Are you asking this about yo cāyaṃ or about ayaṃ kho sā?
In both cases, the answer is no. The demonstrative + personal pronoun is exactly that, e.g., like so ahām which we’ve seen before - so (demonstrative pronoun), ahaṃ (personal pronoun).
In the case of yo cāyam (i.e., yo ca ayaṃ after sandhi is removed), this is just yo +ayam (yāyam), a relative and demonstrative pronoun, with ca stuck in middle in the enclitic position of the phrase. And this is an idiomatic expression “whichever, whatever, just this”.
And in the case of ayaṃ kho sā this is just two demonstrative pronouns following each other, “this indeed is that (middle way)”. Note that the Buddha earlier in the excerpt first stated that there is a middle way, then he asked the rhetorical question “what is that middle way”, katamā ca sā, bhikkhave, majjhimā paṭipadā …
And finally, he answers his own question with “this (ayaṃ) is that (sā) middle way …” Hope that helps.
And finally, he answers his own question with “this (ayaṃ ) is that (sā ) middle way …” Hope that helps.
yes - very helpful - thank you so much!
Realizing I likely panic when pronouns are in close proximity, and get foggy on whether they act as noun modifers (sā majjhimā patipadā), or if they’re standing in for an absent antecedent. 
During class today, @Sumana posted this lovely chanted rendition of the Dhammacakkappavattana into the chat, and some of you may have missed it. Here it is again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBkwjv7lprA
Following along with this clip would be very helpful to memorizing the sutta if you are so inclined, but even if not it is very to just listen to and follow along with the Pāli and English translation.
Thank you Sumana.
Inspired by our class, I designed this tonight. I couldn’t find any Theravadan background that I like so I used Zen background instead 
Thank you very much Sumana. The words are so eloquently stated and it is very beautifully designed. A work of art. Alison
