John Kelly’s Pāli Class 2024 (G&K) Class 7

I thought so was a personal pronoun, not a demonstrative pronoun.

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Certainly can be both, here similar to eso and ayam.

See, for instance, Collins p. 61 bottom table.

Also, Duroiselle section #291, 292.

Note in G&K 2.12: “etam ‘this’ has much the same sense as sa/tam, ….”


Excellent, that’s just the pointer I was looking for.

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Yes, that’s right. All the 3rd person pronouns can also act as demonstrative pronouns in Pāḷi.

The G&K book does a poor job in making that clear, and I must not have been very clear myself when going through all the pronouns during my lesson.

so gacchati - he goes / tā gacchati - she goes
so puriso gachati - that man goes / tā itthi gacchati - that woman goes

In the top line so / tā are 3rd person pronouns, and in the bottom line they are demonstrative pronouns.


It’s weird to see these things that are also found in my particular regional dialect of Norwegian. I can also say ‘he goes’ and ‘he man goes’, and in the latter case it means ‘that man goes’ (though it’s considered a bit rural to speak that way)

Edit: Actually, I think it works in Norwegian in general to say ‘he the man that goes’ and then the added ‘he’ is just emphasis for ‘that man’. In my dialect you also have to say ‘he the man goes’ – without the ‘the’ it sounds a little odd but still clear what is meant. We do have some unusual sounds in my dialect though :slight_smile:

We also have ḷ for some reason, I wonder if it’s some unlikely remnant from proto-Indo European that has survived in some Norwegian fjord :nerd_face:


That’s extremely interesting, Mittakhantī! Those Indo-European roots are everywhere. Thanks for sharing that.

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Is this comment by Dheerayupa a common feeling among my students in this class? If so, I can certainly slow down the pace a little. Please let me know if a number of you feel I’m going too fast through the material.

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With all due respect :pray:t2:, this is not my experience at all. Thanks for asking.


I don’t think it’s too fast. One thing I’d find useful though - more fragments of the “homework” exercises as examples when the new grammar is being introduced. It would reinforce where in the book to look for the particulars when constructing the translations. I am enjoying learning the essentials of Pali, and appreciating the qualities of a good translation.


I would love more examples to go with the grammar terminology. That what makes it feel “fast” sometimes for me; something explained succinctly with grammar terms but then I don’t actually remember what they all mean in the moment.


Thanks, @BethL, @lwg, @Erika_ODonnell . I very much appreciate your feedback! :pray:

@johnk you don’t speak too fast at all. When I taught, I spoke much faster than you. :grinning: :smile: :grin: :laughing:

Like @Erika_ODonnell, I would like to see more examples to go with each grammar point. Parsing sentences is a great method to help me understand complicated complex sentences. But if most students can understand Pali the way you teach, you needn’t worry about me. I’ll just have to find different ways to help my brain cells process the info. :slight_smile:


I’m uploading here the slightly revised slides for Class 7 (see change on slide 4 for feminine present participle forms)
SC Pali 2024 Class 7 Slides (amended).pdf (1.1 MB)

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@johnk or @stephen

I can’t locate saṅkamanto in the DPD or the PTS online dictionary. (I can locate saṅkamati.)

(This is from Mil3.5.5.)

What is the tense? It feels like an optative because it is that philosophical tone. But that’s not the optative.

Thanks :pray:t3: :elephant:

Hi, I don’t have any books in front of me (standing on a Manhattan street), but wouldn’t that form be the present participle, nom ?

Possibly standing in as a nom subject?


Hi Beth,

Maybe it’s too early in the morning for me :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:, but I can’t find saṅkamanto in that sutta - only saṅkamati and saṅkanto (the latter being a past participle). But, yes, Stephen is right, that form of the verb would indeed be the present participle of saṅkamati.


Ah! It’s in Mil3.5.7 SuttaCentral.

See G&K III.6 for forms of the present participle in -ant.

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Having a look at G&K this evening, I see that ‘samkamanto’ is listed in the Lesson 3 Initial Vocab (p. 32)

“one who crosses over, one who transmigrates. (present participle, see this grammar 6)”

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Aha…right there before my eyes in the grammar.

It’s interesting that the dictionaries don’t list it. But I seem to recall DPD doesn’t list present participles – or at least that I had trouble finding them during the Warder class.


Dictionaries probably won’t give every form of a verb unless it is irregular, unexpected.
This present participle is a standard formation, and helpfully the reading’s glossary explains it.