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Just a quick first jhana poll [poll]

What’s your current definition of jhana ?
  • Jhana is heavenly bliss
  • Jhana is not heavenly bliss
  • One who dies while in jhana will reborn as one among gods
  • One who dies while in jhana will not reborn as one among gods
  • the 5 hindrances can be abandoned even if all 5 factors of jhana are not present
  • The five hindrances can only be abandoned if all 5 factors of jhana are present
  • earlier Brahmins and jains could do jhana
  • earlier Brahmins and jains could not do jhana
  • There’s no sense of self in jhana
  • There’s still sense of self in jhana
  • There is difference between sutta jhana and visuddhimagga jhana
  • There is no difference between sutta jhana and visuddhimagga jhana
  • One can hear sound while in jhana
  • One can’t hear sound while in jhana
  • One can’t do vippassana while in jhana
  • One can do vippassana while in jhana
  • Jhana is not needed to attain nibbana
  • Jhana is needed to attain nibbana
  • All past life regression either through therapy,meditation or near death experience are done after attaining the fourth jhana
  • Only past life regression that are done in meditation are done after attaining the fourth jhana

0 voters

If you have other questions pairs please state those in reply I will try to include those in the poll too

If you don’t know what the question is please state it in reply because my English is not that good

May you and your family attain enlightenment while alive friends

Revived

Hi sis @Gillian and bro @faujidoc1 and @Gabriel_L I want your opinions too so please vote guys

I feel that you respect the elders and their commentaries very much, am I right ? that’s cool @sma

I think differences are good, through differences we learn

Sorry, I don’t think any of these statements can be said to express the Buddhadhamma.

2 Likes

Of course it is friend and your suggestion is welcome, I will even edit the poll to match your suggestion

I don’t think it is possible to say such black and white things and give them true false value. Start with the first one- Jhana is heavenly bliss. Well, what do you mean by heavenly bliss? Is it the same as piti? We might disagree about that. But suppose we agree on piti, which is defined in Buddhist dictionaries. When you say jhana, are you taking about all levels of jhana? The texts say there is piti in the lower jhana but it is abandoned in the higher. Then what do you means by “is”? That piti is the essence of jhana? That jhana is accompanied by piti? A nuanced statement would be that there is an association between jhana and piti. As the Zen folks might say, they are not the same and not different.

What I truly don’t understand is your purpose in posting this.

6 Likes

Yes I think you are right, I remember buddha said 1.yes,2.no,3.both yes and no, 4.neither yes nor no regarding whether buddha exists after death and even these 4 are rejected by the buddha let alone black and white type of question

Let me review your statement

Based on my current level of understanding it’s piti and sukha that exists in first jhana so I can revise this to “a first jhana poll”, I will revise this now thanks

Piti and sukha is the essence of first jhana based on jhana simile found in sutta that’s just my assumption of course an assumption can be wrong and I am interested in your view about this

I want to know more about how many people disagree and agree with me regarding jhana and whether my position is a minority or not

Furthermore I think I have mental illness thus I really want to know the view of others who are healthy regarding jhana and whether they have diverse opinions or not if they have diverse opinions I can conclude that my mental illness really don’t influence my views about jhana

I send metta to you and your family friend I hope you understand my English, I don’t speak English here

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I just chose the answer based on my intuition, without any rational thinking. In addition, my knowledge of Buddhist teachings is superficial.
:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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Dear @ratana, I think perhaps MN8 has a quite important discussion to consider about views of first Jhana:

MN8:3.6: A mendicant gives up and lets go of these views by truly seeing with right wisdom where they arise, where they settle in, and where they operate as: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’
MN8:4.1: It’s possible that a certain mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, might enter and remain in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.
MN8:4.2: They might think
MN8:4.3: they’re practicing self-effacement.
MN8:4.4: But in the training of the Noble One these are not called ‘self-effacement’;

MN8 is important here because the poll asks directly about the connections a self might have with first jhana. Yet MN8 indicates clearly that pursuing such connections are a distraction from the work, a shallow use of jhana as simply peaceful or blissful meditations:

MN8:4.4: But in the training of the Noble One these are not called ‘self-effacement’;
MN8:4.5: they’re called ‘blissful meditations in the present life’.

Instead of speculation, the Buddha recommends instead a personal, purposeful and diligent practice of absorption applied with a firm grounding in ethics:

MN8:17.2: Out of compassion, I’ve done what a teacher should do who wants what’s best for their disciples.
MN8:17.3: Here are these roots of trees, and here are these empty huts. Practice absorption, Cunda! Don’t be negligent! Don’t regret it later! This is my instruction.”

And that is my definition of first jhana.
:pray:

2 Likes

That’s a very awesome explanation friend, I just can’t believe you can answer as clear and as perfect as that, I would be surprise if you have not written 2-3 books about jhana

Thanks for the sharing friend, if you don’t mind could you share to me your most powerful jhana experience ever ?

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6 Likes

The Buddha explains this about jhana experiences:

MN111:2.8: For a fortnight he practiced discernment of phenomena one by one.
MN111:2.9: And this is how he did it.
MN111:3.1: Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, he entered and remained in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.
MN111:4.1: And he distinguished the phenomena in the first absorption one by one: placing and keeping and rapture and bliss and unification of mind; contact, feeling, perception, intention, mind, enthusiasm, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention.
MN111:4.2: He knew those phenomena as they arose, as they remained, and as they went away.
MN111:4.3: He understood:
MN111:4.4: ‘So it seems that these phenomena, not having been, come to be; and having come to be, they flit away.’
MN111:4.5: And he meditated without attraction or repulsion for those phenomena; independent, untied, liberated, detached, his mind free of limits.
MN111:4.6: He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond.’

All that you seek to learn is in the suttas.

:pray:

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It would be more amazing if you have the agama parallel friend

Of course buddha didn’t speak Chinese but an indoEuropean language so pali is priority but for comparison sake that should not be a problem instead if the Chinese version support the pali that would be cool

This is the current state of the poll now

This is for the purpose of the accuracy of the poll question.

There’s sometimes different definition of heaven. Do you include the Brahma realms in heavenly?

Same too with definition of gods, do you consider Brahma beings as part of gods?

1 Like

Yes

Yes

I include even fairies as gods and heavenly but if you have a different interpretation feel free to suggest me

This is the current state of the poll now

If the sample is accurate then almost 90% of suttacentral visitors thought that jhana is heavenly bliss and earlier brahmins and jains had jhana

It’s interesting to note that eventhough you disagree with someone you actually agree a lot with them too

Correction: 90% of people who responded to the poll - which is 90% of 6 people.

6 Likes

How do you think the vote should be made so more person can vote ?

Dear @Ratana,

This is a Forum about the Early Buddhist texts. Many of the people here have devoted substantial parts of their lives to the accurate translation and transmission of the Words of the Buddha. The Buddha Dhamma, is not an ‘opinion’ or a ‘View’. It is a deep and profound awakening to the way things Really are - like a ‘Law of Nature’.

Through his teachings The Buddha has provided a Path of Practice for others, to lead them out of delusion and out of the cycle of samsara. It isn’t something to be voted on - but something to work towards through study and to realise for oneself through practice.

I’m not voting because from my perspective this isn’t a very wise or skillful way to move forwards in understanding the Dhamma. It is like having a popular vote on whether the Earth is Flat or not.

Lets say 1,000 people voted, but they had Wrong View - It wouldn’t matter if 100% of those people expressed the same opinion, if it is still based on Avija - if it is not Right View, then it is not correct. If you had 1,000 people, only one of whom was a Noble one with Right View (without Avija) - and the results showed 999 people agreed with something, yet that single Noble One didn’t - then even 99.9% agreement also means nothing and is not correct. Worse, it can lead to those wrong views being strengthened in the 999 people.

The Dhamma is not a democratic process

I can only speak for myself here, but these are some of the reasons why I have not voted.

I hope that this feedback is not discouraging to you, and that you will continue to Discuss and Discover what the Buddha taught. :smiley:

With Metta
May your practice bring you peace and happiness :pray: :dharmawheel: :slight_smile:

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Yes I understand that, I imagine when buddha was enlightened his view was a minority at that time

1 Like