I don’t think it is possible to say such black and white things and give them true false value. Start with the first one- Jhana is heavenly bliss. Well, what do you mean by heavenly bliss? Is it the same as piti? We might disagree about that. But suppose we agree on piti, which is defined in Buddhist dictionaries. When you say jhana, are you taking about all levels of jhana? The texts say there is piti in the lower jhana but it is abandoned in the higher. Then what do you means by “is”? That piti is the essence of jhana? That jhana is accompanied by piti? A nuanced statement would be that there is an association between jhana and piti. As the Zen folks might say, they are not the same and not different.
What I truly don’t understand is your purpose in posting this.
Yes I think you are right, I remember buddha said 1.yes,2.no,3.both yes and no, 4.neither yes nor no regarding whether buddha exists after death and even these 4 are rejected by the buddha let alone black and white type of question
Let me review your statement
Based on my current level of understanding it’s piti and sukha that exists in first jhana so I can revise this to “a first jhana poll”, I will revise this now thanks
Piti and sukha is the essence of first jhana based on jhana simile found in sutta that’s just my assumption of course an assumption can be wrong and I am interested in your view about this
I want to know more about how many people disagree and agree with me regarding jhana and whether my position is a minority or not
Furthermore I think I have mental illness thus I really want to know the view of others who are healthy regarding jhana and whether they have diverse opinions or not if they have diverse opinions I can conclude that my mental illness really don’t influence my views about jhana
I send metta to you and your family friend I hope you understand my English, I don’t speak English here
Dear @ratana, I think perhaps MN8 has a quite important discussion to consider about views of first Jhana:
MN8:3.6: A mendicant gives up and lets go of these views by truly seeing with right wisdom where they arise, where they settle in, and where they operate as: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ MN8:4.1: It’s possible that a certain mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, might enter and remain in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. MN8:4.2: They might think MN8:4.3: they’re practicing self-effacement. MN8:4.4: But in the training of the Noble One these are not called ‘self-effacement’;
MN8 is important here because the poll asks directly about the connections a self might have with first jhana. Yet MN8 indicates clearly that pursuing such connections are a distraction from the work, a shallow use of jhana as simply peaceful or blissful meditations:
MN8:4.4: But in the training of the Noble One these are not called ‘self-effacement’; MN8:4.5: they’re called ‘blissful meditations in the present life’.
Instead of speculation, the Buddha recommends instead a personal, purposeful and diligent practice of absorption applied with a firm grounding in ethics:
MN8:17.2: Out of compassion, I’ve done what a teacher should do who wants what’s best for their disciples. MN8:17.3: Here are these roots of trees, and here are these empty huts. Practice absorption, Cunda! Don’t be negligent! Don’t regret it later! This is my instruction.”
That’s a very awesome explanation friend, I just can’t believe you can answer as clear and as perfect as that, I would be surprise if you have not written 2-3 books about jhana
Thanks for the sharing friend, if you don’t mind could you share to me your most powerful jhana experience ever ?
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MN111:2.8: For a fortnight he practiced discernment of phenomena one by one. MN111:2.9: And this is how he did it. MN111:3.1: Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, he entered and remained in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. MN111:4.1: And he distinguished the phenomena in the first absorption one by one: placing and keeping and rapture and bliss and unification of mind; contact, feeling, perception, intention, mind, enthusiasm, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention. MN111:4.2: He knew those phenomena as they arose, as they remained, and as they went away. MN111:4.3: He understood: MN111:4.4: ‘So it seems that these phenomena, not having been, come to be; and having come to be, they flit away.’ MN111:4.5: And he meditated without attraction or repulsion for those phenomena; independent, untied, liberated, detached, his mind free of limits. MN111:4.6: He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond.’
It would be more amazing if you have the agama parallel friend
Of course buddha didn’t speak Chinese but an indoEuropean language so pali is priority but for comparison sake that should not be a problem instead if the Chinese version support the pali that would be cool
This is a Forum about the Early Buddhist texts. Many of the people here have devoted substantial parts of their lives to the accurate translation and transmission of the Words of the Buddha. The Buddha Dhamma, is not an ‘opinion’ or a ‘View’. It is a deep and profound awakening to the way things Really are - like a ‘Law of Nature’.
Through his teachings The Buddha has provided a Path of Practice for others, to lead them out of delusion and out of the cycle of samsara. It isn’t something to be voted on - but something to work towards through study and to realise for oneself through practice.
I’m not voting because from my perspective this isn’t a very wise or skillful way to move forwards in understanding the Dhamma. It is like having a popular vote on whether the Earth is Flat or not.
Lets say 1,000 people voted, but they had Wrong View - It wouldn’t matter if 100% of those people expressed the same opinion, if it is still based on Avija - if it is not Right View, then it is not correct. If you had 1,000 people, only one of whom was a Noble one with Right View (without Avija) - and the results showed 999 people agreed with something, yet that single Noble One didn’t - then even 99.9% agreement also means nothing and is not correct. Worse, it can lead to those wrong views being strengthened in the 999 people.
The Dhamma is not a democratic process
I can only speak for myself here, but these are some of the reasons why I have not voted.
I hope that this feedback is not discouraging to you, and that you will continue to Discuss and Discover what the Buddha taught.
With Metta
May your practice bring you peace and happiness