Just another brick in the wall

This topic was automatically opened after 2 hours.

SN.16.10. Upassayasuttaṃ
bālo mātugāmo - women are foolish

I am a huge fan of the early buddhism gathas.
But even in the oldest gathas identified by Dr. Ui Hakuju and Prof. Hajime Nakamura, there are quite a number of sexist verses, such as:

SN.1.14/(4) Khattiyasuttaṃ
Komārī seṭṭhā bhariyānaṃ, - A maiden is the best of wives,
Sussūsā seṭṭhā bhariyānaṃ, - An obedient woman is the best of wives,

SN.1.58/(8). Uppathasuttaṃ
SN.1.76/(6). Najīratisuttaṃ
Itthī malaṃ brahmacariyassa, - Women are the stain of the holy life

SN.1.77/(7). Issariyasuttaṃ
itthī bhaṇḍānamuttamaṃ - A woman ranks as the best of goods

SN.3.16/(6). Mallikāsuttaṃ
“Itthīpi hi ekacciyā, seyyā posa janādhipa;
Medhāvinī sīlavatī, sassudevā patibbatā.
“Tassā yo jāyati poso, sūro hoti disampati.
Tādisā subhagiyā putto, rajjampi anusāsatī”ti.

“Even if it’s a woman, would be noble nourished by the king,
Would be wise, virtuous, worship the mother-in-law and love her husband.
Those born to her will be heroes and district leaders,
The son of such a good wife might even be the advisor to kings.”

And after reading this thread from Bhante, now I know that there’s truly nothing new under the sun.
What happens now already happened thousands years ago.
We were not, and would be never living in a ‘dharma fairyland’, so as the Bhagava, His Holiness.

I don’t believe the Bhagava and Arahants were sexists.
But even the teachings of the Bhagava, must be appropriate for the temporal society.

With the development of science and society, the status of women is much better than before.
I believe that the Bhagava’s teachings are the light of the world and the beacon of progress.

This thread revealed the reality that the current information era still needs Bhagava’s teachings as the cure to the disease of sexism.
And the holy life would always be the guide of the worldly life, just like what was written:

SN.5.2. Somāsuttaṃ

“Yaṃ taṃ isīhi pattabbaṃ, ṭhānaṃ durabhisambhavaṃ;
Na taṃ dvaṅgulapaññāya, sakkā pappotumitthiyā”ti.

“That state so hard to achieve
Which is to be attained by the seers,
Can’t be attained by a woman
With her two-fingered wisdom.”

“Itthibhāvo kiṃ kayirā, cittamhi susamāhite;
Ñāṇamhi vattamānamhi, sammā dhammaṃ vipassato.
“Yassa nūna siyā evaṃ, itthāhaṃ purisoti vā.
Kiñci vā pana aññasmi, taṃ māro vattumarahatī”ti.

“What does womanhood matter at all
When the mind is concentrated well,
When knowledge flows on steadily
As one sees correctly into Dhamma.

“One to whom it might occur,
‘I’m a woman’ or ‘I’m a man’
Or ‘I’m anything at all’—
Is fit for Mara to address.”

3 Likes

everything is new all the time, including the sun - so to say that nothing is new is the truth of samsara, but i hope that we all are heading for liberation, so why look back?

I stand by my words, Venerable, and do not believe they were unjust.

Your recent long post made it quite clear that you are skeptical of the of the very ideas of such things as misogyny, patriarchy and male privilege, and regard these notions as the products of some kind of degenerate worldly street activism, which you, from your perch of higher Buddhist wisdom, can see through and understand to be empty of “view” of any coherent kind. You have also used words like “neurotic” and “emotional” to demean the words of those you disagree with, while your own speech has shown several signs of excitability and irritability.

You might want to reflect further on this, and consider the possibility that your inability to detect coherence in your interlocutors’ statements could very well be a sign of intellectual incapacity, lack of relevant educational experience, or weak powers of social awareness and observation on your own part - rather than a sign that the other participants are deficient in appreciation of the true dhamma. You might also consider the possibility that your resort to misogynistic stereotypes about the minds of women in your own discourse reflects some kind of unresolved fear of your own unconquered emotions, which you associate with a despised “female” part of your nature.

1 Like

Dear Bhante,

I would like to add that while @DKervick’s words are strong and may seem harsh to me, I see the same thing he does in one respect. Some of your posts on this topic do come across to me as attacking and belittling your perceived opponents. I feel certain that this was not your intent, but I wanted to express that it may seem that way to others. :pray:

2 Likes

Well, I would like to stand by @anon61506839 here.

Whatever he meant and however the messages came across I have no doubt that it didn’t come out of ill-will.

In all cases we should take all opportunities available to practice forgiveness, loving kindness and compassion.

After all we are all on the same path, or trying to get there somehow, with all of our limitations and imperfections… and may we shed all of them in this life time or the next!

4 Likes

I agree on both counts :heart:

2 Likes