KN Snp 4.7 more proof that V&V in first jhāna is thinking and pondering

The types of thoughts you think and ponder before you speak them out loud. As opposed to “placing the mind and keeping it connected” as B. Sujato translates V&V, which AFAIK is equivalent to VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhana) type of V&V that classifies vaci-sankhara as access concentration V&V, and jhāna V&V as “initial thought and sustained thought” (mind trying to glue itself to visual kasina or nimitta).

As SN 36.11 very clearly states:

(9 gradual nirodho/cessations)

atha kho pana, bhikkhu, mayā anu-pubba-saṅkhārānaṃ nirodho akkhāto.
“And I have also taught the step-by-step cessation of fabrications.
1. paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa vācā niruddhā hoti.
1. When one has attained the first jhāna, speech has ceased.
2. dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa vitakka-vicārā niruddhā honti.
2. When one has attained the second jhāna, directed thought & evaluation have ceased.
3. tatiyaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa pīti niruddhā hoti.
3. When one has attained the third jhāna, rapture has ceased.
4. catutthaṃ jhānaṃ samāpannassa assāsa-passāsā niruddhā honti.
4. When one has attained the fourth jhāna, in-and-out breathing has ceased.
5. ākāsānañcāyatanaṃ samāpannassa rūpa-saññā niruddhā hoti.
5. When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of space, the perception of forms has ceased.
6. viññāṇañcāyatanaṃ samāpannassa ākāsānañcāyatanasaññā niruddhā hoti.
6. When one has attained the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of space has ceased.
7. ākiñcaññāyatanaṃ samāpannassa viññāṇañcāyatanasaññā niruddhā hoti.
7. When one has attained the dimension of nothingness, the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness has ceased.
8. nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṃ samāpannassa ākiñcaññāyatanasaññā niruddhā hoti.
8. When one has attained the dimension of neither-perception nor non-perception, the perception of the dimension of nothingness has ceased.
9. saññā-vedayita-nirodhaṃ samāpannassa saññā ca vedanā ca niruddhā honti.
9. When one has attained the cessation of perception & feeling, perception & feeling have ceased.

Important obvious things people have a hard time understanding, thanks to VRJ

1. vaci-sankhara are "speech fabrications", defined as vitakka and vicara. So speech drops out in first jhana, speech fabrications drop out in 2nd jhana. And this is why first jhana is not noble silence, 2nd jhana is noble silence (SN 21.1). If it were not possible to do ordinary type of thinking in first jhana, then why would the Buddha say "speech ceases" as the border condition that would exclude one from first jhana? Please people exercise logic and common sense here. Before you speak, do you "think and ponder", or do you glue your mind and keep it connected to a kasina and then fully coherent speech magically makes your vocal cords vibrate and your lips flap?
  1. look at attainment 5 carefully, the base of infinite space. rupa-sanna drops out here. That means before attainment 5, the first four jhanas, rupa-sanna is ACTIVE. One is percipient of sounds, mosquito bites, leg pain, etc. One can exercise the will to flap the lips and speak, but doing so would exit first jhana.

SN 46, the bojjhanga samyutta collection, especially SN 46.2 and 46.3 give very clear detailed explanation of how it works.

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