Language tools and Pali translations

[Gillian]

@bran

He fit there with a misplaced modifier

Wonderful.

[christie]

@Gillian

Well, we’re all here to learn Pali and the title of the thread was about a Pali class.
So what are you talking about? Should we change the title of this thread to clarify, do you think?

Well, I was responding to a discussion, as I clarified earlier. Often threads have many subdiscussions. I did start that post by saying it was about clarifying my suggestion that the trilinear translation should include grammatical analysis. Was that not clear enough?

[Gillian]

I was unclear about the purpose being proposed for the trilinear translation, given that such translations are used all the time for various purposes.

You asked me certain questions above - have I answered them adequately?

[christie]

@Gillian

I was unclear about the purpose being proposed for the trilinear translation, given that such translations are used all the time for various purposes.

You asked me certain questions above - have I answered them adequately?

Not really, but it’s okay. I’ve realised yesterday, after doing a deep dive on classical Pali grammar, that it’s best to ignore modern linguistics and stick to classical Pali terminology instead. Warder teachers grammar from a classical perspective, so it’s best to stick to that framework.

I don’t think you really understood what the trilinear translation thread was about, but that’s okay too. Bhante wanted a trilinear translation approach to be implemented in SC, @bran and I were just discussing ways of achieving this.

I did want to use the trilinear approach to help me study Pali (which is where you probably got the confusion from) but I am now coming to the conclusion I want to learn Pali in Pali, and translation is not an important goal for me.

I wish you the best in your own path towards studying Pali.

[Gillian]

@christie

Not really, but it’s okay.

Phew! …

@christie

I’ve realised yesterday, after doing a deep dive on classical Pali grammar, that it’s best to ignore modern linguistics and stick to classical Pali terminology instead. Warder teachers grammar from a classical perspective, so it’s best to stick to that framework.

I totally agree. Warder is simultaneously the best and the most difficult entry to the Pali language. Modern linguistics could have a useful role, but this has not yet been developed, and is better ignored fttb. Back to Kaccayanabyakarā then?

@christie

I don’t think you really understood what the trilinear translation thread was about, but that’s okay too. Bhante wanted a trilinear translation approach to be implemented in SC, @bran and I were just discussing ways of achieving this.

The trilinear thread on on Github? I did understand what that was about, but I didn’t understand why it was being taken up in the context of the new Pali course on this forum . I shouldn’t have said anything ,because after I did misunderstandings proliferated . So sorry .

@christie

I did want to use the trilinear approach to help me study Pali (which is where you probably got the confusion from) but I am now coming to the conclusion I want to learn Pali in Pali, and translation is not an important goal for me.

I use a trilinear approach to learning Pali, and also a quadrilinear one with grammar as well. I find it tremendously useful on a personal level in dealing with difficult sentences. I sense you would too. I don’t share such analyses tho because they’re just learning devices and everybody learns in different ways. But other learning activities like reading and memorising as Bhante suggests are also very helpful.

@christie

I wish you the best in your own path towards studying Pali.

And I wish you the same.

[bran]

I didn’t understand why it was being taken up in the context of the new Pali course on this forum

@sujato

something that I’d be delighted to see someone take up on SuttaCentral.

A twelve week course on Pali for serious students by Bhante Sujato

Created A feature request: Literal translation · Issue #2730 · suttacentral/suttacentral · GitHub

[bran]

I’ve been showed a style of translation here:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/1.htm

[christie]

Thanks - I think @gillian was referring to that as being a “quadrilinear” format.

I am currently experimenting with using functional programming notation to represent grammatical constructs, as the cases etc tend to be grouped together in sentences:

gāmā apenti munayo

(gāmā) ((apenti) (munayo))
from village / depart / sages
The sages depart from the village.

[Gillian]

The Summer Institute of Linguistics over the decades has developed much translation software of this type. I have no idea what they have available now, but you might want to have a search.