Leigh Brasington and "Jhana-Lite" (Why there is no such thing as "jhāna-lite")

Dear Leigh,

I think there is a huge misunderstanding on your part, which might be the root of the rest of misunderstandings. The body in the suttas in certain contexts oftentimes does not mean physical body.

SN51.12

And so, with an open and unenveloped heart, they develop a mind that’s full of radiance. When the four bases of psychic power have been developed and cultivated in this way they’re very fruitful and beneficial.

When the four bases of psychic power have been developed and cultivated in this way, a mendicant wields the many kinds of psychic power: multiplying themselves and becoming one again … controlling the body as far as the Brahmā realm. …

If you can “control the body” as far as the Brahma realm, it means clearly transcending physicality. Brahma realm is part of rupa-loka which is outside of kama-loka. Even higher devas don’t have acces to Brahma-loka, and Brahmas are totally beyond sensual and physical realm. And “physical body” is fully kama-loka thing.

So… the body in suttas mean body of experience. You can experience spiritual feelings in your “body” even in rupa and arupa loka… It is more like body of the mind.

MN10

When they feel a material pleasant feeling, they know: ‘I feel a material pleasant feeling.’

When they feel a spiritual pleasant feeling, they know: ‘I feel a spiritual pleasant feeling.’

When they feel a material painful feeling, they know: ‘I feel a material painful feeling.’

When they feel a spiritual painful feeling, they know: ‘I feel a spiritual painful feeling.’

When they feel a material neutral feeling, they know: ‘I feel a material neutral feeling.’

When they feel a spiritual neutral feeling, they know: ‘I feel a spiritual neutral feeling.’

This “body of mind” can feel both material feeligns coming from material body, and spiritual feelings coming from spiritual body (the mind). The “body” in jhanas clearly relates to mind. Abhidhamma also agrees with it, that it is the mind that feels both material and spiritual feelings in the end.

The white cloth simile is simile for whiteness of “energy” fulfilling whole boundless mind.

There are numbers of suttas suggesting that white color is highest, like:

AN8.65

“Mendicants, there are these eight dimensions of mastery. What eight?

Perceiving form internally, someone sees visions externally, limited, both pretty and ugly. Mastering them, they perceive: ‘I know and see.’ This is the first dimension of mastery.

Perceiving form internally, someone sees visions externally, limitless, both pretty and ugly. Mastering them, they perceive: ‘I know and see.’ This is the second dimension of mastery.

Not perceiving form internally, someone sees visions externally, limited, both pretty and ugly. Mastering them, they perceive: ‘I know and see.’ This is the third dimension of mastery.

Not perceiving form internally, someone sees visions externally, limitless, both pretty and ugly. Mastering them, they perceive: ‘I know and see.’ This is the fourth dimension of mastery.

Not perceiving form internally, someone sees visions externally, blue, with blue color, blue hue, and blue tint. Mastering them, they perceive: ‘I know and see.’ This is the fifth dimension of mastery.

Not perceiving form internally, someone sees visions externally, yellow, with yellow color, yellow hue, and yellow tint. Mastering them, they perceive: ‘I know and see.’ This is the sixth dimension of mastery.

Not perceiving form internally, someone sees visions externally, red, with red color, red hue, and red tint. Mastering them, they perceive: ‘I know and see.’ This is the seventh dimension of mastery.

Not perceiving form internally, someone sees visions externally, white, with white color, white hue, and white tint. Mastering them, they perceive: ‘I know and see.’ This is the eighth dimension of mastery.

These are the eight dimensions of mastery.”

It is closery related to

AN4.41

“Mendicants, there are these four ways of developing immersion further. What four? There is a way of developing immersion further that leads to blissful meditation in the present life. There is a way of developing immersion further that leads to gaining knowledge and vision. There is a way of developing immersion further that leads to mindfulness and awareness. There is a way of developing immersion further that leads to the ending of defilements.

And what is the way of developing immersion further that leads to blissful meditation in the present life? It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption … second absorption … third absorption … fourth absorption. This is the way of developing immersion further that leads to blissful meditation in the present life.

And what is the way of developing immersion further that leads to gaining knowledge and vision? It’s when a mendicant focuses on the perception of light, concentrating on the perception of day, regardless of whether it’s night or day. And so, with an open and unenveloped heart, they develop a mind that’s full of radiance. This is the way of developing immersion further that leads to gaining knowledge and vision.

And what is the way of developing immersion further that leads to mindfulness and awareness? It’s when a mendicant knows feelings as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away. They know perceptions as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away. They know thoughts as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away. This is the way of developing immersion further that leads to mindfulness and awareness.

And what is the way of developing immersion further that leads to the ending of defilements? It’s when a mendicant meditates observing rise and fall in the five grasping aggregates. ‘Such is form, such is the origin of form, such is the ending of form. Such is feeling, such is the origin of feeling, such is the ending of feeling. Such is perception, such is the origin of perception, such is the ending of perception. Such are choices, such is the origin of choices, such is the ending of choices. Such is consciousness, such is the origin of consciousness, such is the ending of consciousness.’ This is the way of developing immersion further that leads to the ending of defilements.

The first one related probably to jhanas in general… which allows you to get second type which is very deep and pure realisation of limitless radiance of the mind, which relates to realisation of powerful dibbacakkhu (also in other traditions known as third eye).

DN33

Tīṇi cakkhūni - maṁsacakkhu, dibbacakkhu, paññācakkhu.

Three eyes:—the eye of the flesh, the eye of clairvoyance, and the eye of wisdom.

So in general the second type of samadhi (white immesurable light) gives you divine eye which allows you psychic powers and see how things really are (pannacakkhu).

This is also reflected in transcendentral dependent origination:

SN12.23

Faith is a vital condition for joy. Joy is a vital condition for rapture. Rapture is a vital condition for tranquility. Tranquility is a vital condition for bliss. Bliss is a vital condition for immersion. Immersion is a vital condition for truly knowing and seeing. (samādhūpanisaṁ yathābhūtañāṇadassanaṁ) Truly knowing and seeing is a vital condition for disillusionment. Disillusionment is a vital condition for dispassion. Dispassion is a vital condition for freedom. Freedom is a vital condition for the knowledge of ending.

Exactly as in AN4.41, after samadhi comes yathabuthananadassanan - knowledge and vision which are psychic powers, one of which can and should be pannacakkhu which gives rise to liberation.

So… actually this level of samadhi (second in AN4.41 - pure boundless radiant mind - most likely 4th jhana and perhaps higher) is completely transcending sensuality, physical realm etc… at this point, when you emerge out if it to level of upacara samadhi, whole universe, including all khandhas are seen on the background of this vast, radiant purified awareness. At this point I suppose you don’t really feel “human”, but human you “are” on day to day basis is just one more little experience in flow of your exalted radiant consciousness. Just as Ajahn Brahm says, Ajahn Brahm cannot get into jhana. For jhana to happen, Ajahn Brahm must disappear.

I totally agree with Bhante Sujato and Samseva. You’re using word “jhanas” to things that are not exactly jhanas. I think if you wish to use buddhist vocabulary and in a way “promote” yourself on it and to speak to people interested in buddhism, you should do as much as possible to be faithful to buddhist tradition and not just your inner experience.

AN4.180

“Mendicants, what are the four great references?

Take a mendicant who says: ‘Reverend, I have heard and learned this in the presence of the Buddha: this is the teaching, this is the training, this is the Teacher’s instruction.’ You should neither approve nor dismiss that mendicant’s statement. Instead, you should carefully memorize those words and phrases, then check if they’re included in the discourses and found in the texts on monastic training. If they’re not included in the discourses and found in the texts on monastic training, you should draw the conclusion: ‘Clearly this is not the word of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha. It has been incorrectly memorized by that mendicant.’ And so you should reject it.
(…)

Take another mendicant who says: ‘In such-and-such monastery there is a single senior mendicant who is very learned and knowledgeable in the scriptures, who has memorized the teachings, the texts on monastic discipline, and the outlines. I’ve heard and learned this in the presence of that senior mendicant: this is the teaching, this is the training, this is the Teacher’s instruction.’ You should neither approve nor dismiss that mendicant’s statement. Instead, you should carefully memorize those words and phrases, then check if they’re included in the discourses and found in the texts on monastic discipline. If they’re not included in the discourses or found in the texts on monastic discipline, you should draw the conclusion: ‘Clearly this is not the word of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha. It has been incorrectly memorized by that senior mendicant.’ And so you should reject it.

I think you should reconsider your views for the benefit of all and to promote harmony between sangha and lay teachers community. I highly recommend reading book of Bhante Sujato called Swift Pair of Messengers. It is a great guide on this difficult subjects that are jhanas and insight.

Btw. the sutta about masteries I think relates to fact that at first two levels you need to get into khanika or upacara samadhi or be post-appana samadhi to get psychic visions about reality and stuff in it. The later two are about fact you can do it at will without getting to any kind of samadhi (because your mind is so deep and purified already). And the next ones are about boundless immersions in certain colours, white being highest. Fourth jhana is also full of white light. And it is also related to “yathabuthananadasanam” - having knowledge and vision, which again relates to dibbacakkhu, eye of clairvoyance.

If what you really taught is fourth jhana and above, at least some of your students should posses these powers, like seeing many of past lives with vivid accuracy, reading minds of others etc. If not, this is yet another argument to reconsider your views and adapt to reality of buddhist tradition. Fourth jhana is really deep stuff. I don’t say there cannot occur any subtle “mental process of knowing” but it clearly it is way beyond physicality.

I don’t know where you got this assumption from. One does not need to be a teacher to understand suttas and have deep practice. And one does not need to be a teacher to protect purity of the dhamma. I would say that there are many practitioners who are not teachers, whose practice and understanding is much deeper and purer than many teachers. And it is duty of us all to try to preserve teachings of the Buddha as they are intended to be understood by our greatest teacher, whether we are teachers or not.

I also know that being a dhamma teacher, lay or ordained is a very difficult, demanding and possibily very meritorious task. And that even when teachers make some mistakes, they probably also do a lot of good by inspiring etc. As Ajahn Brahm says: Good, bad, who knows? But it doesn’t mean we should not improve ourselves and not try to stay as faithful to the suttas and vinaya, as Buddha taught us to do in AN4.180. And for this Sadhu Sadhu to this thread for giving us, and especially you Leigh, this opportunity.

I also remember nice story about sangha going for alms-round and young monk said to Venerable Sariputta that his robe was not worn properly this day. Venerable Sariputta went to the forest, changed his robe accordingly and thanked the young mendicant. I think this is beautiful story saying that no matter how much good we do (even Venerable Sariputta!), if there is some error in our conduct, we should just correct it. :slight_smile:Seeing danger in slightest fault…

I hope this message will bring more light to this difficult issue. I’ll just add that it is normal that we make mistakes and learn from them. I too had very deep misunderstandings about jhanas and still probably have some. But we can get closer and closer to proper understanding, and I hope this thread will bring us one step closer.

With Metta! :yellow_heart:

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