List of Leaders of the Sangha

I’d like to remind everyone here of something really important …

:slightly_smiling_face:

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Yes, the future Buddha Maitreya is mentioned in the Pali Canon. You can find out more by reading the sutta #26 of the Digha Nikaya collection.

Notice that the wording there does not imply he comes to purify the teachings. He is just another human being to awaken to the same Dhamma:

And the Blessed One named Metteyya will arise in the world (…) just as I have arisen today.
He will realize with his own insight this world (…) and make it known to others, just as I do today.
He will teach the Dhamma (…) and he will reveal a spiritual practice that’s entirely full and pure, just as I do today.

https://suttacentral.net/dn26/en/sujato#dn26:24.6

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Venerable @sujato, could you remind me of the specific book / volume in which we have discourses by the Buddha naming his disciples, both lay and monastic, as foremost in specific qualities?

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It’s in the AN Ones, 188–267.

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Thanks @sabbamitta
@Muhammad, these texts may be interesting to you.

In these we see the Buddha listing:

  • Sariputta as the foremost in terms of rolling the supreme Wheel of Dhamma that was rolled forth by the Realized One
  • Aññākoṇḍañña as the foremost in terms of seniority (as he was the first to awaken under Buddha Gotama’s instruction
  • Sariputta again as foremost in terms of wisdom
  • Mahāmoggallāna as foremost in terms of psychic power
  • Mahākassapa as foremost in terms of advocating austerities
  • Anuruddha as foremost in terms of clairvoyance
  • Bhaddiya Kāḷigodhāyaputta as foremost in terms of coming from eminent families
  • Lakuṇṭaka Bhaddiya as foremost in terms of having a charming voice (I believe this means charisma?)
  • Piṇḍolabhāradvāja as foremost in terms of having a lion’s roar
  • Puṇṇa Mantāṇiputta as foremost in terms of speaking on the teaching
  • Mahākaccāna as foremost in terms of explaining in detail the meaning of a brief statement is
    and the list goes on…!

To me the above means that there was no lack of references for people to pick one or another first disciple to start a sect.

Maybe, Sariputta who comes twice in the list could be said to be a favorite one. But the texts indicate he passed away before the Buddha, so it was not possible for him to be in that position.

The next in the list would be Mahāmoggallāna. But again, as far as I can gather, he also passed away before the Buddha.

Then we are left with Mahākassapa who actually survived the Buddha and hence had such a pivotal role in the first council.

I am nevertheless of the view that there is nothing in Buddha’s teaching and discipline that makes necessary some sort of authority lineage for preservation or maintenance of the purity of things.

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Sir, do you mean the EBT part of the Pali canon. or the Later added text?

mmm, Digha Nikaya is considered EBT. that answers the above question.

I think that the connection between Metteyya and the purification or the revival of the Forgotten parts of the Dhamma is related to Mahayana traditions, this makes it a later addition to the Metteyya Buddha concept and related information.

I want to ask a textual-specified question that is related to the Pali original text specifically.

is Metteyya always mentioned as a Buddha at the EBT section of the Pali canon? is there mentions of Metteyya without the word “Buddha”?

can someone please quote all the mentions of Metteyya or Metteyya Buddha at the Pali Canon or even all of EBTs section among various canons?

Hi @Muhammad, actually, you can find the answer for all that yourself (provided the search functionality is working!).
@sabbamitta, can you advise on the status of SuttaCentral’s search ?

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Hmm … I basically don’t know more than you do. It’s on and off, and as far as I am aware, nobody really knows where this comes from. They are rebuilding it each time it goes down, as soon as they become aware.

I personally am rarely using SC search, except for dictionary entries. For most other stuff, Voice search serves my purposes better.

Thanks for your reply!
Could you point @Muhammad to the SuttaCentral Voice search’s results for the term metteyya ?
:anjal:

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I also highlight that there are a number of textual references which indicate the Buddha was very down to earth and acknowledged that the only certainty around the teaching and discipline is that it would deteriorate and fade with time.

It is actually that very disappearance of the teaching and discipline of a previous Buddha that makes room for another Buddha to arise in the world. And this is different to the understanding that another Buddha comes to purify things.

The four noble truths and spiritual path these point to are independent of human beings. Buddhas are those who awaken to these things after they have been lost for a good while.

And even among Buddhas, not all are equally successful in terms of establishing a teaching and discipline that lasts many generations.

In the book that records the analysis of the monastic rules we find the below. Note that as far as I am aware this is found in all existing alternative versions of this book, from both Northern and Southern Buddhist traditions.

"(…) Sāriputta approached the Master. He bowed down to him, sat down to one side, and said, “Just now, Venerable Sir, while I was in seclusion, I thought, ‘For which Buddhas did the dispensation not last long, and for which ones did it last long?’”

“Sāriputta, the dispensation established by Master Vipassī, Master Sikhī, and Master Vessabhū didn’t last long. But the dispensation established by Master Kakusandha, Master Konāgamana, and Master Kassapa did last long.”

“And what’s the reason why the dispensation established by Master Vipassī, Master Sikhī, and Master Vessabhū didn’t last long?”

“Master Vipassī, Master Sikhī, and Master Vessabhū were disinclined to give detailed teachings to their disciples.
They gave few discourses in prose and in prose and verse, few expositions, verses, inspired utterances, quotations, birth stories, amazing accounts, and analyses; and they didn’t lay down training rules or recite a monastic code.
After the disappearance of those Buddhas, after the disappearance of the disciples awakened under them, those who were the last disciples—of various names, clans, and social standing, who had gone forth from various families—allowed that dispensation to disappear rapidly.
It’s just like flowers not tied with a thread to a wooden plank: they’re scattered about, whirled about, and destroyed by the wind.
Why’s that?
Because they’re not held together by a thread.
Just so, after the disappearance of those Buddhas, after the disappearance of the disciples awakened under them, those who were the last disciples allowed that dispensation to disappear rapidly.

But those Masters were untiring in exhorting their disciples after reading their minds. At one time, Sāriputta, while staying in a certain frightening forest grove, Master Vessabhū, the Perfected and the fully Awakened One, instructed an Order of a thousand monks, reading their minds and saying, ‘Think like this, not like this; pay attention like this, not like this; abandon this; having attained this, abide in it.’
When those thousand monks had been instructed by Master Vessabhū, their minds were freed from the corruptions without grasping.
But when anyone with sensual desire entered that frightening forest grove, usually their hair would stand on end.
This is the reason why the dispensation established by Master Vipassī, Master Sikhī, and Master Vessabhū did not last long.”

“What then is the reason why the dispensation established by Master Kakusandha, Master Konāgamana, and Master Kassapa lasted long?”

“Master Kakusandha, Master Konāgamana, and Master Kassapa were diligent in giving detailed teachings to their disciples.
They gave many discourses in prose and in prose and verse, many expositions, verses, inspired utterances, quotations, birth stories, amazing accounts, and analyses; and they laid down training rules and recited a monastic code.
After the disappearance of those Buddhas, after the disappearance of the disciples awakened under them, those who were the last disciples—of various names, clans, and social standing, who had gone forth from various families—made that dispensation last for a long time.
It’s just like flowers tied with a thread to a wooden plank: they are not scattered about, whirled about, or destroyed by the wind.
Why is that?
Because they are held together by a thread.
Just so, after the disappearance of those Buddhas, after the disappearance of the disciples awakened under them, those who were the last disciples made that dispensation last for a long time.
This is the reason why the dispensation established by Master Kakusandha, Master Konāgamana, and Master Kassapa lasted long.

So, from the above we see that the Buddha understood that to make sure the teaching and discipline he brought back to the world would survive for many generations, all that was needed was to lay down training rules and recited a monastic code.

This supports the understanding that his model of religion is not one dependent or requiring leadership to prosper.

All it needs is the structure and governance brought by laying down training rules and periodical recitation of a monastic code.

https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-pj1/en/brahmali

:anjal:

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I will try to, Sir.

I will reply the results. for if there is anything that is not mentioned by me, you can update it.

It’s under https://voice.suttacentral.net.

SuttaCentral search is comprehensive. Voice search is not comprehensive, but for the purposes I use it it is mostly more useful.

For example, searching for “foremost” in SuttaCentral returns 167 results. The ones you are looking for in the AN Ones come only after a looot of scrolling. In Voice there are 41 results for “foremost”. This is not comprehensive, but more useful.

SuttaCentral search searches everything that is on SuttaCentral. Voice search only searches segmented texts—which at the moment are Bhante Sujato’s English translations and the corresponding Pali root texts.

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Actually, I am asking @sabbamitta to introduce you to SuttaCentral Voice and its powerful search engine! :anjal:

This is what I got by search for metteyya there.

I don’t think the first occurrence is about the future Buddha Metteyya but indeed about a character named Tissa Metteyya.

So it seems the only mention to the future Buddha Metteyya is the one found in DN26.

:anjal:

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You have to know how to spell it. I tried “metteya” and got nothing! :grin:

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I’ve set up a dedicated SuttaCentral search using google. :slightly_smiling_face:

www.bit.ly/SuttaCentral

using that I get 143 results for “metteyya”!

An interesting result…
At the time of Metteyya Buddha’s appearance on earth Jambudīpa will be pervaded by mankind even as a jungle is by reeds and rushes. There will be eighty-four thousand cities with Ketumatī at the head.

1,384,802,302 people and counting

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Yes, AN6.61 refers to a section in the Sutta Nipata where there is a person named Metteyya asking questions.

If you click the little arrows in the search results list you can see the passage that has the search term you entered:

(Please excuse the UI speaking German.)

According to this info, can we consider the possibility that Metteyya wil come at a very distant time in future and Can’t come at this time? (Considering that the Buddha’s teachings and discipline are here, hadn’t disappeared yet?)
Then, why will Buddha bother to tell people about Metteyya, if Metteyya will come only at the time when the texts that mentions him had long disappeared and not available from the first place, and the living people who will be at his time will not identify him as “metteyya buddha who shakyamuni buddha talked about”, not waiting for him.
while the people who had been told about him by the Buddha, and the other generations told by this people are gone. because Buddha’s Dhamma is not available at that time.

Considering that the previous quoted text is an authentic EBT. Buddha certainly meant the “training rules and monastic code” given by him, without addition or deletion. the original, not the various ones differing by letters, words, full-rule among various traditions and schools. of course, by having a sangha training with these training rules and reciting these monastic code, we have a sangha the same as buddha’s original sangha. with the same Dhamma, the same Vinaya, same teachings. where is this sangha? who is the lead in it? how did he got these “training rules and recitations” being able to confirm they are same as the original ones taught by buddha?

Thanks sir.
for now, for a beginning, i can say “Buddha Metteyya” is mentioned once in the pali canon. -until new evidence appear-.

Thanks, sir. Faujidoc1.

You gave another reference.

Yes, another fully awakened and perfected one only arises once the Dhamma has been lost.

I understand that people may still have a vague memory or understanding of there being a Buddha once in the distant future.

But for sure the knowledge, understanding and memory of the four Noble truths and the eightfold path, together with all other principles leading to awakening would have been lost by then.

Hence the role of the new Buddha to bring back these things to the world.

I don’t understand your other questions. Maybe you could try breaking down your sentences in a way that you present your doubts clearly?

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