Looking for a sutta: spiritual pleasures to let go of sensual ones

Q & A
1

I am looking for a sutta that mentions that being able to reach spiritual pleasures is necessary to (completely) let go of sensual pleasures… any idea which one is it?

Many thanks in advance!

1 Like
2

In MN, there’s at least one sutta where the Buddha says before he attained the 4 jhanas, he was still attracted to sensual pleasures. Can’t remember which sutta that is at the moment, and I know I have it in my notes somewhere, will locate it within a week or 2 if no one else can cite the reference.

1 Like
3

@Yasoj

Pīti nirāmisā
MN 118 & SN 54.13
(in the Fulfilment of the Seven Enlightenment Factors)
SN 46.3

SN 36.31: Niramisa Sutta — Unworldly/Not of the Flesh

Nirāmisāpi sukhā
Sn 36.14

With parallels.

Mudita.

3 Likes
4

Thank you all!

I think I found the one I had in mind in a private reply.
It is in MN14 SC3:

Sensual pleasures give little gratification and much suffering and distress, and they are all the more full of drawbacks. Even though a noble disciple has clearly seen this with right wisdom, so long as they don’t achieve the rapture and bliss that are apart from sensual stimuli and unskillful qualities, or something even more peaceful than that, they might still return to sensual pleasures. But when they do achieve that rapture and bliss, or something more peaceful than that, they will not return to sensual pleasures.

:anjal:

7 Likes
5

Other suttas that match the “pleasure apart from sensual pleasures”

MN 14 higher pleasures to replace sensuality

‘Appassādā kāmā bahudukkhā bahupāyāsā,
 4.1 Sensual pleasures give little gratification and much suffering and distress,
ādīnavo ettha bhiyyo’ti—
 and they are all the more full of drawbacks.
iti cepi, mahānāma, ariyasāvakassa yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṃ hoti,
 4.2 Even though a noble disciple has clearly seen this with right wisdom,
so ca aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi pītisukhaṃ nādhigacchati,
 so long as they don’t achieve the rapture and bliss that are apart from sensual stimuli and unskillful qualities,
aññaṃ vā tato santataraṃ;
 or something even more peaceful than that,
atha kho so neva tāva anāvaṭṭī kāmesu hoti.
 4.3 they might still return to sensual pleasures.
Yato ca kho, mahānāma, ariyasāvakassa ‘appassādā kāmā bahudukkhā bahupāyāsā,
 4.4 …
ādīnavo ettha bhiyyo’ti—evametaṃ yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṃ hoti,
 …
so ca aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi
 …
pītisukhaṃ adhigacchati aññaṃ
 But when they do achieve that rapture and bliss,
vā tato santataraṃ;
 or something more peaceful than that,
atha kho so anāvaṭṭī kāmesu hoti.
 4.5 they will not return to sensual pleasures.
Mayhampi kho, mahānāma,
pubbeva sambodhā,
 5.1 Before my awakening—
anabhisambuddhassa bodhisattasseva sato,
 when I was still unawakened but intent on awakening—
I too clearly saw with right wisdom that:
5.2‘Sensual pleasures give little gratification and much suffering and distress,
and they are all the more full of drawbacks.’ ‘appassādā kāmā bahudukkhā bahupāyāsā,
ādīnavo ettha bhiyyo’ti—evametaṃ yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṃ hoti,
5.3But so long as I didn’t achieve the rapture and bliss that are apart from sensual stimuli and unskillful qualities,
or something even more peaceful than that,
so ca aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi pītisukhaṃ nājjhagamaṃ,
aññaṃ vā tato santataraṃ;
5.4I didn’t announce that I would not return to sensual pleasures.
atha khvāhaṃ neva tāva anāvaṭṭī kāmesu paccaññāsiṃ.
5.5But when I did achieve that rapture and bliss,
or something more peaceful than that,
Yato ca kho me,
mahānāma,
‘appassādā kāmā bahudukkhā bahupāyāsā,
ādīnavo ettha bhiyyo’ti—evametaṃ yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṃ ahosi,
so ca aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi pītisukhaṃ ajjhagamaṃ,
aññaṃ vā tato santataraṃ;
5.6I announced that I would not return to sensual pleasures.
athāhaṃ anāvaṭṭī kāmesu paccaññāsiṃ.

MN 100 remembering first jhana as boy
28.4Stemming from that memory came the realization: Tassa mayhaṃ, bhāradvāja, satānusāri viññāṇaṃ ahosi: 28.5‘That is the path to awakening!’ ‘eseva maggo bodhāyā’ti. 29.1Then it occurred to me: Tassa mayhaṃ, bhāradvāja, etadahosi: 29.2‘Why am I afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities?’ ‘kiṃ nu kho ahaṃ tassa sukhassa bhāyāmi yaṃ taṃ sukhaṃ aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehī’ti? 29.3Then it occurred to me: Tassa mayhaṃ, bhāradvāja, etadahosi: 29.4‘I’m not afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities.’ ‘na kho ahaṃ tassa sukhassa bhāyāmi yaṃ taṃ sukhaṃ aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehī’ti.
30.1Then it occurred to me: Tassa mayhaṃ, bhāradvāja, etadahosi: 30.2‘I can’t achieve that pleasure with a body so excessively emaciated. Why don’t I eat some solid food, some rice and porridge?’ ‘na kho taṃ sukaraṃ sukhaṃ adhigantuṃ evaṃ adhimattakasimānaṃ pattakāyena. 30.3Yannūnāhaṃ oḷārikaṃ āhāraṃ āhāreyyaṃ odanakummāsan’ti. 30.4So I ate some solid food. So kho ahaṃ, bhāradvāja, oḷārikaṃ āhāraṃ āhāresiṃ odanakummāsaṃ.

MN 99 pīti of jhāna is not kāmehi
MN 2, 5. brāhmaṇavaggo, 9. subhasuttaṃ (MN 99.1), para. 26 ⇒
“katamā ca, māṇava, pīti aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi? idha, māṇava, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi . pe . paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati. ayampi kho, māṇava, pīti aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi. puna caparaṃ, māṇava, bhikkhu vitakkavicārānaṃ vūpasamā . pe . dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati. ayampi kho, māṇava, pīti aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi.

MN 85 Buddha boy realizes first jhana no reason to fear pleasure
31.3Could that be the path to awakening?’
siyā nu kho eso maggo bodhāyā’ti.
31.4Stemming from that memory came the realization: Tassa mayhaṃ, rājakumāra, satānusāri viññāṇaṃ ahosi: 31.5‘That is the path to awakening!’ ‘eseva maggo bodhāyā’ti. 32.1Then it occurred to me: Tassa mayhaṃ, rājakumāra, etadahosi: 32.2‘Why am I afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities?’ ‘kiṃ nu kho ahaṃ tassa sukhassa bhāyāmi yaṃ taṃ sukhaṃ aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehī’ti? 32.3Then it occurred to me: Tassa mayhaṃ, rājakumāra, etadahosi: 32.4‘I’m not afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities.’ ‘na kho ahaṃ tassa sukhassa bhāyāmi yaṃ taṃ sukhaṃ aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehī’ti.

MN 75 jhana even better than heavenly pleasure
10.9I see other sentient beings who are not free from sensual pleasures being consumed by craving for sensual pleasures, burning with passion for sensual pleasures, indulging in sensual pleasures. So aññe satte passāmi kāmesu avītarāge kāmataṇhāhi khajjamāne kāmapariḷāhena pariḍayhamāne kāme paṭisevante. 10.10I don’t envy them, nor do I hope to enjoy that. So tesaṃ na pihemi, na tattha abhiramāmi. 10.11Why is that? Taṃ kissa hetu? 10.12Because there is a satisfaction that is apart from sensual stimuli and unskillful qualities, Yāhayaṃ, māgaṇḍiya, rati, aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehi— 10.13and which even achieves the level of heavenly pleasure. api dibbaṃ sukhaṃ samadhigayha tiṭṭhati— 10.14Enjoying that satisfaction, I don’t envy what is inferior, nor do I hope to enjoy it. tāya ratiyā ramamāno hīnassa na pihemi, na tattha abhiramāmi.

MN 36 buddha boy recalling first jhana
same as MN 85 and 100
4 Likes