Mahāpajāpati gotamī and a question about the timing of her ordination

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@sujato @Brahmali

Dear Venerables, I would be interested in your opinion about a slightly technical question re timing of bhikkhuni ordination and Mahāpajāpati gotamī I just noticed in the Vinaya Vol 4:

The various senior monastics approach the Buddha to ask how to interact with the Bhikkhus from Kosambi (as they were on their way). Various senior Bhikkhus are listed with the phrase:
”Assosi kho āyasmā mahāmoggallāno … assosi kho āyasmā mahākassapo … assosi kho āyasmā ānando … assosi kho āyasmā rāhulo”

Then, Mahāpajāpati Gotamī also approaches the Buddha (asking how she should act towards them):
”Assosi kho mahāpajāpati gotamī”

The Buddha responds to her with
”Yañca kiñci bhikkhunisaṅghena bhikkhusaṅghato paccāsīsitabbaṁ sabbaṁ taṁ dhammavāditova paccāsīsitabban”ti.”

So, my question is whether or not there is significance that when the Bhikkhus approach the term “āyasmā” is used, whereas when Mahāpajāpati Gotamī approaches this term is not used. Indeed, when other laypeople come, the same phraseology is used as is used for Mahāpajāpati Gotamī. For example, straight afterwards Anāthapiṇḍika approaches(“Assosi kho anāthapiṇḍiko gahapati”) and then Visākhā Migāramātā (“Assosi kho visākhā migāramātā”).

The reason I ask is whether or not this indicates Mahāpajāpati Gotamī was not ordained at the time of the Kosambi events, whereas there were bhikkhunis at this time (see my bold above), which would suggest she wasnt the first bhikkhuni to be ordained. However, I acknowledge I might be totally misreading the pali here!

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I can’t speak to the timing, but the bhikkhunis don’t have a word like āyasmā, as far as I know. It’s a masculine sg voc.

There is also ayya and ayyā which are related, but not the same thing.

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The sequences of people visiting the Buddha suggests she was ordained. That is, she is placed after the bhikkhus but before the laymen. The laywomen come after the laymen.

The fact that she has no title is probably an artefact of the editing of the texts. The texts would have been edited by monks, who would have regarded the senior monks at the time of the Buddha as worthy of a title. The nuns, by contrast, are usually called “sister” by the monks, and are not normally addressed with an honorific title.

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Thank you Venerable, that makes perfect sense. I guess I was just confused that she wouldn’t be referred to as a monastic (even with the term bhikkhuni) if she was one at that time- but I see that wasnt the way…

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That’s a close reading, Hasantha! It’d be interesting to look at parallels for this.

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In Dharmaguptaka Vinaya, she’s referred to as bhikkhuni.

Here, Mahapajapati bhikkhuni is used

爾時摩訶波闍波提比丘尼

Later in the text, she’s referred as Gotami bhikkhuni or just plain Gotami.

瞿曇彌比丘尼

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