Meaning of neither pressed down nor forced back?

Hi friends ,

Can someone help to explain the meaning of below sentence ? :

" neither pressed down nor forced back, nor with fabrication kept blocked or suppressed "

Thank you .

Bhante Ananda, the concentration that does not lean forward
and does not bend back and that is not reined in and checked
by forcefully suppressing [the defilements]—by being liber­ated, it is steady;
by being steady, it is content; by being content,
one is not agitated.1929 Bhante Ananda, what did the Blessed One
say this concentration has as its fruit?'1930
(9) “When she asked me this, I replied: 'Sister, the concentra­tion that does not
lean forward and does not bend back, and
that is not reined in and checked by forcefully suppressing [the
defilements]—by being liberated, it is steady; by being steady,
it is content; by being content, one is not agitated. The Blessed
One said this concentration has final knowledge as its fruit.'1931
When one is thus percipient too, friend, one does not experi­ence that base.”

It is possible to develop samadhi by concentration. Here the defilements are kept at bay by the concentration.

It is also possible to develop samadhi by calming the mind and by reducing the defilements. This is the type of concentration for final knowledge.

With metta

Could I suggest the sutta reference to be provided?

@Gabriel_L

闍知羅 (SA 557)
迦摩Kamabhu Sutta SA559
You might also be interested in partial parallels to this sutta:
With Ananda (AN 9.37, Pāli)

Thks .

1 Like

@Mat

Thanks @Matheesha .

Is lean forward & bend back
same meaning as
neither pressed down nor forced back?

What it meant then?

Yes.

“Once, friend, when I was staying in Saketa at the Game Refuge in the Black Forest, the nun Jatila Bhagika went to where I was staying, and on arrival—having bowed to me—stood to one side. As she was standing there, she said to me: ‘The concentration whereby—neither pressed down nor forced back, nor with fabrication kept blocked or suppressed—still as a result of release, contented as a result of standing still, and as a result of contentment one is not agitated: This concentration is said by the Blessed One to be the fruit of what?’ AN9.37

The above is a better translation as the force of one-pointedness remains as a ‘fabrication’ and stops (suppresses) defilements/disturbances from dissipating the state of samadhi. This is why after coming out of one still continues to experience positive (and wholesome) mind states - hence it being called ‘nibbana, experienced here-and-now’ (dittadhammavedaniya-nibbana?). It is of course temporary.

With metta

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@Mat

What does it mean by
Fabrication not suppressed ?
Fabrication refer to what ?

Thanks .

Sankhara, here means something made,created, built, willed (into existence) that is, fabricated like a pre-fabricated house where the walls and roof just need to be fitted together as they were already made separately elsewhere.

Here we are discussing a mental fabrication not a physical one, of course. There are mental fabrications which have various functions in the mind. A habit is an example of one (as I understand it). We are not aware of these fabrications (unless sensitivity of the mind is developed to be able to detect very subtle workings of the mind) and therefore they work subconsciously. When we repeatedly and forcefully bring the awareness back to the breath and concentrate hard such a ‘habit’ or fabrication develops that overcomes disturbances of the mind that pull it to distraction. These two opposing forces can cause headaches if the meditator concentrates hard. When the fabricatin is set in place it can work on its own ‘crushing the mind’ without needing constant concentration. The following I think is an example:

When, with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth, he beats down, constrains, and crushes mind with mind, then any evil unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion are abandoned in him and subside. MN20.

This sounds like a negative thing! However when I first started meditating, it was the only way I could get my errant mind under control. Since then I have heard of others doing it as well, without any obvious ill effects. I suppose if it’s not possible to go on long retreats and you are meditating in your bedroom getting on top of ones defilements like this is not the worst thing you could do. Having done this at the start there is then access to deeper samadhi where it’s possible to relax.

With metta

1 Like

@Mat

Thanks for your
sharing and explanations.
very much appreciated !

May you be well always !
Sadhu !