One thing I haven’t seen pointed out is that I think the Western relationship to Dharma (and perhaps way of thinking generally) can be coming from a place of “spiritual materialism.” Speaking as an American, working hard and building up your posessions is seen as a virtue in my culture. So when people practice Dharma and meditation, they come at it with the view of gaining something or achieving a goal.
They want the achievement of finishing a 10 day intensive meditation retreat which was SO difficult and “most people wouldn’t be able to do.” Not only is this mentality not really conducive to Dharma practice in my opinion, it can be harmful. If we’re sitting down and meditating and our mind starts to feel “off” in such a way that isnt just mildly unpleasant, this view may encourage us to power through with willpower even though in reality we should stop. In my opinion, we should approach our meditation with right intention: kindness, gentleness, and renunciation. This way we can continue on in our practice sustainably. We also need teachers that can give us well balanced instructions and not just see meditation as always being good and never capable of causing harm.
What is the true harm? Anger, meanness, abuse, neglect, violence… These are the things that are the true harm, and I have never heard of Dhamma inciting such things, despite the large or little mental turbulence that comes from difficult meditation. Meditation incites peace and harmony, and I have not heard of a single case of violence linked to meditation, it’s almost as if such a thing is not possible. I may be naive.
@Dharma Well, this is actually the topic of this thread - that there are side-effects if meditation is taken out of its wider context and to me that’s hardly surprising and speaks volumes when it comes to zeitgeist. “Let’s meditate because it can relieve stress, you know, and if I’m less stressed I can pack my days even fuller”- that sort of thinking that @Jon64 described.
I have the impression that retreat organizers/retreat centres got the message since some of them now explicitly state that you should only go on retreats if you are stable/not in danger of having a breakdown.
" .. 33-year-old married male .. no history of any medical problems, trauma, or substance use as well as no history of
any psychiatric illness in the family. .. 20-day meditation program in the Vipassana meditation centre … Everything was going smoothly until the 16 th day …when the patient started saying people were looking at him and trying to harm him, even though no one noticed any such activity. Since the patient was found self-muttering, aggressive towards other participants, and not meditating, he was sent home .. " Meditation-Induced Psychosis: Trigger and Recurrence 2021
The case above illustrates your point that meditation sickness happens to non-Westerners too. It also points out meditation sickness can happen without a “mental Illness” background.
My reson for suggesting the separation of business from teaching deep samadhi and jhana is simple. To profit or derive an income from teaching deep meditation requires a constant and/or increasing number of students to make the business successful. Success or failure of the business can easily become the primary motivation behind the teaching practice and can easily overule the needs of ‘at risk’ students. Unless the teacher is educated in the psychological evaluation of potential students, then the risk is amplified by both ignorance and the need for money.
I say this as a long term meditator who has witnessed other students in serious distress after meditative experiences have triggered pre- existing mental issues to cause real problems for the students themselves. The motivation to teach must be based on wisdom, care and benevolence, not the desire for profit.
This is interesting and I wonder how this has been addressed in the past. Would teachers have a close look on meditators e.g. and advice them to cut down on meditation if they notice problematic side-effects? Or are the side-effects viewed as a necessary step on the way?
David Treleaven has developed a program of trauma-sensitive mindfulness which seems to be gaining strength among therapists in the secular aplication of mindfulness.
Thats great advice. Clearly the sutta’s recommend the Gradual Path too.
The sutta’s also mention the case of the mass suicide of bkikkus (SN 54.9:3.4) directly taught by Shakyamuni. Are you implying they weren’t grounded in the Eight Fold Noble Path?
The way that Sutta goes probably seems something added in or meaning lost in time, because I don’t think a fully Enlightened Buddha would teach Bhikkhus a meditation that would cause them to take their own lives, especially something that would rupture their view of reality and bring them to do such a thing. It doesn’t seem like the Buddha to introduce such a meditation, or even call it a meditation (I wouldn’t either). I think it’s better not to follow the Suttas dogmatically, but instead learn from them what wisdom one can, as they were written long after the passing of Gautama Buddha.
Namaste! May you and all others be well, living happy, and long lives.
Excellent questions. I can offer some responses. Please let me know if Im mistaken on anything. One sutta provides some guidance about remedying mediation sickness SN 54.9:8.4. Here Shakyamuni addressed the meditation harm by stopping the contemplation of foulness of the body and replacing it with ānāpānassatisamādhi. This includes in small part " He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.’ [6] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.’" (Thanissaro Bhikku). This cultivation of pleasure in the body appears to be a direct antidote to the disgust and repugnance of the body that can arise from foulness contemplation taken too far.
Recent “Insight Meditation” and “dry insight/vipassana” teachers have not always followed that teaching. There are documented reports of lay teachers telling unhinged students on retreats to push through bizarre states. Maybe that works for some, some of the time. There are also the foreseeable consequence of the situation worsening to the point the student has to decamp.
There are also lay teachers who know to tell students with intense experience to stop sitting and do hard labor to get grounded. Although helpful it implies an astonishing ignorance of the retreat dynamics in general and the meditation techniques specifically, that triggered the problem in the first place.
I wonder if there are other Suttas that shine a light on this rare but serious topic?
Thank you for your reply. I totally agree with your points. Interestingly, recent research also show that mindfulness interventions not only brings about changes like reduced anxiety, reduced stress, etc., but also bring about meaningful structural and functional changes in the brain and neurochemicals. Here’s a relatively new (2024) review article:
Hi @Daya,
Ty & yw. Thanks for bringing this aspect up, too. Practicing the teachings of the Buddha has helped me with my mental health issues immensely, from day one. So I feel protective when I see information that, at least on the surface, contradicts my experience.
best,
~l
This topic came up in Buddhist Insight Network for teachers. Although I have indirect knowledge of it (both in the East and West) and never directly seen serious meditation sickness during any retreat and such, my sense is people should not go to long meditation retreat of 10 or 20 days without having established a good foundation in mindful-awareness and wholesome states of mind most of the day in all four body positions first.
Also any childhood trauma, neglect or abuse, repressed memories, unprocessed emotion can surface (even not recognized before) as prolonged sitting opens the unconscious material. I’ve noticed (no offence) people in the west and modern culture have more self-loathing, aversion, fear, self-doubt, disconnection from body and feelings, behind the strong persona. So heart-centered metta meditation and self-compassion practices are essential for emotional-psychological healing and wholeness, before going to deeper samadhi or any foulness of body or non-self practices. In my own practice I resonate with Dipama’s approach to meditation. “Meditation is love”
That view while very touching, appears misleading. Alleging a sutta has been corrupted when its eg, deeply disturbing to preexisting personal beliefs like the omniscience of a Buddha, but without analytic evidence of corruption, would dismiss a great learning case. The sutta in question has many highly authentic aspects:
Ananda was actually there. He had an astonishingly proficient memory for relating sutta events
A sutta that honestly admits a calamity is much more likely to be authentic then a sutta that tells of the Buddha’s unbelievable (as in miraculous and wonderful) triumphs.
Foulness contemplation can be a powerful skillful means for young vigorous male renunciates. As in all practices the injunction is for the practitioner to take care with the skillful part.
How could the Buddha know the bhikkus would practice the meditation in a harmful way? A Buddha or an arahant is not omniscient.Bhikkhu Sujato, 2019
Maybe the corruption isnt with this sutta, but the later teachings that portrayed the Buddha as some kind of perfect God? If so there are likely to be many suttas that reveal a marked divergence in the lived experience of Gotama and later buddhist movements.
The commentary suggests that they attained, in which case they were grounded in the Path. In another sutta the Buddha says that someone who has attained anāgāmī can commit suicide “blamelessly.”
If they were still unenlightened, then yes, committing suicide would be wrong view: you’re there with the Buddha himself. Why throw away that opportunity?!
