Meditative investigation and absorption in the Thai forest tradition (Jayasaro)

The Watercooler
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A. Jayasaro on meditation and dhamma practice

Here’s an interesting talk from Ajahn Jayasaro reflecting upon some “advanced kind of stuff” regarding dhamma & meditation practice (approx. 23 minutes onwards). Might be specifically interesting to those contemplating the significance of:

  • investigation during different stages of meditation (esp. right before & after jhanas)
  • how “jhanas” have been approached in the Thai forest tradition
  • the relevance of the deeper absorptions for stream-entry (a necessity or not)
  • wise approach to nimittas

These issues are being discussed in the frame of Thai forest tradition. Would be interesting to hear other theravada monastics’ thoughts regarding this talk. Do you agree with A. Jayasaro on the aforementioned issues based on your own understanding? Who might be the mentioned arahants and great masters whose teachings are available as recordings? I suppose Ajahn Chah is one of them, but who else?

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Would you mind summarising the points to be discussed and any relevant suttas references

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Sorry for this much delayed reply..! If I remember correctly, I was intrigued by how Ajahn described investigation as a method for entering jhanas for some people (instead of nimittas). I think he also mentioned an understanding within the forest tradition that one does not have to experience jhanas to become a stream-enterer. For me at least these mentions were giving a much more varied understanding of the teachings within that tradition than what I had encountered before. I guess I was somewhat surprised that these nuances aren’t necessarily mentioned by other teachers associated with the same tradition.

There was something else too that caught my attention in the talk but I can’t remember it right now, I think I need to listen to the teaching once more. :smiley:

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If I remember correctly (it has been a while), in “A swift pair of messengers” Bhante Sujato shows that samādhi (noble right samādhi) is a pre-requisite for all wishing to attain stream-entry. I remember that even amongst those released by faith or understanding, samadhi is a non-negotiable part of their training. And samādhi always means the Jhānas.

I found it convincing and also to make sense intuitively. In my reading of Bhante Sujato’s works on this topic - Without a well trained mind it is impossible to cut any fetter (lower or higher) thoroughly. Cutting some of the lower fetters is the pre-requisite for stream entry. And mental training always involves Right Samādhi.

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