Mental phenomenon MN9

I may not be aware of a way to look up cross references on sutta central. But I’m looking for cross references for the term mental phenomenon as mentioned in MN 9 the sutta on right view. Plz excuse my lack of technical skills in learning about sutta central

Are you able to copy and paste the text from MN9 you are referencing?

… the second, mental intention the third, and consciousness the fourth.

Are you referencing this part?

Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation is much older & more ‘traditional Theravada’ than Bhikkhu Sujato’s and may offer some different translations for your investigation, here: SuttaCentral. For example it includes the translations:

  • mental volition
  • mentality-materiality
  • mental formation
1 Like

The other great thing you can do with @sujato ’s translations @JoeL is change the ‘view’ to include the Pali line by line underneath. Then you can check the “English lookup” checkbox and as you click each Pali word underneath @sujato ’s English you can see what English word is used to translate it.

If your very keen you can then copy the Pali word and head on over to the Digital Pali Reader and search the word. This will give you all the occurrences of the term in any or all the books of the canon you want. Very handy.

Good luck with your research!

Metta.

For example, manosañcetanā, assuming that’s the word your talking about, occurs again in MN38, and in several suttas in SN12

At MN38 we have:

“Mendicants, there are these four fuels. They maintain sentient beings that have been born and help those that are about to be born.
“Cattārome, bhikkhave, āhārā bhūtānaṁ vā sattānaṁ ṭhitiyā, sambhavesīnaṁ vā anuggahāya.
What four?
Katame cattāro?
Solid food, whether coarse or fine; contact is the second, mental intention the third, and consciousness the fourth.
Kabaḷīkāro āhāro oḷāriko vā sukhumo vā, phasso dutiyo, manosañcetanā tatiyā, viññāṇaṁ catutthaṁ.
What is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of these four fuels?
Ime ca, bhikkhave, cattāro āhārā kiṁnidānā kiṁsamudayā kiṁjātikā kiṁpabhavā?
Craving.
Ime cattāro āhārā taṇhānidānā taṇhāsamudayā taṇhājātikā taṇhāpabhavā.

SN 12.25 is interesting:

Ānanda, as long as there’s a body, the intention that gives rise to bodily action causes pleasure and pain to arise in oneself.
Kāye vā hānanda, sati kāyasañcetanāhetu uppajjati ajjhattaṁ sukhadukkhaṁ.
As long as there’s a voice, the intention that gives rise to verbal action causes pleasure and pain to arise in oneself.
Vācāya vā hānanda, sati vacīsañcetanāhetu uppajjati ajjhattaṁ sukhadukkhaṁ.
As long as there’s a mind, the intention that gives rise to mental action causes pleasure and pain to arise in oneself. But these only apply when conditioned by ignorance.
Mane vā hānanda, sati manosañcetanāhetu uppajjati ajjhattaṁ sukhadukkhaṁ avijjāpaccayā ca.
By oneself one instigates the choice that gives rise to bodily, verbal, and mental action, conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise in oneself.
Sāmaṁ vā taṁ, ānanda, kāyasaṅkhāraṁ abhisaṅkharoti, yaṁpaccayāssa taṁ uppajjati ajjhattaṁ sukhadukkhaṁ. Variant: yaṁpaccayāssa taṁ → yaṁpaccayāyataṁ (sya-all, km); yaṁpaccayā yaṁ (mr)
Or else others instigate the choice …
Pare vā taṁ, ānanda, kāyasaṅkhāraṁ abhisaṅkharonti, yaṁpaccayāssa taṁ uppajjati ajjhattaṁ sukhadukkhaṁ. Variant: Pare vā taṁ → parevāssa taṁ (bj, pts1ed, pts2ed); pare vāyataṁ (sya-all, km)
One consciously instigates the choice …
Sampajāno vā taṁ, ānanda, kāyasaṅkhāraṁ abhisaṅkharoti yaṁpaccayāssa taṁ uppajjati ajjhattaṁ sukhadukkhaṁ.
Or else one unconsciously instigates the choice …

Yes thanx guys. I have only ever used Bhodhi’s translation, I really didn’t know there was a difference. I will keep this in mind

The difference is not easily apparent! It’s hard to design interfaces :grin: especially when there is so much stuff to show.

Bhante Sujato’s translations (and a few others) are done using segments. This is sometimes referred to as Bilara translations after the software used to create them. In the list of translations you can see the & Pāli bit. That means that you can see the Pali side by side or line by line with the translation.

22-09-24 09_18_51-MN 9_ Sammādiṭṭhisutta—Bhikkhu Sujato — Mozilla Firefox

All the other translations (including Bhante Bodhi’s) are just hard coded HTML pages. But as a user the difference doesn’t stand out to us when reading them.

2 Likes

So with @sujato translations you can browse like this:

As you can imagine this is enormously useful in working out what Pali words are being translated as what English words, you don’t have that option with Bodhi.

1 Like

Thanks for all the help brothers, I originally came here because I figured it was a safe place to discuss the Dhamma in searching for Pali centric web forums. And somehow kept getting directed here in discussing Thanissaro’s teachings elsewhere but can’t remember how or why. But I’m guessing Suttacentral is an actual Pali study tool?? Is there an about area discussing Sujato is he the founder?

Hi @JoeL,

Please find here a brief introduction to Suttacentral

And the acknowledgements to the people behind the project.

https://suttacentral.net/acknowledgments

With Metta,
Ric
On behalf of the moderators

Of course. However the DigitalPaliReader.online provides a better “click to define” tool in my experience.

1 Like