@Aminah Thank you for this very valuable feedback! Many good points for us to work with!
Kind Regards, Tord
Quite neat, so to that I almost forgot to breath âŚ
Lets see âŚ
And thanks a lot friends!
@awarewolf Glad you like the application! (If you have thoughts on how we can improve it please share). Kind Regards, Tord
Sure, friend - I use it wisely, and that means i donât spend much time with computers, but like any development that can help our younger brothers and sisters in aging, sickness and death. So I will do my best, before making personal suggestions
That goes way back in Windows versions. If one never ran into it before, that means one hasnât tried a lot of 3rd-party applications that do interesting things in the way of extending Windowsâ often purposely crippled functionality.
Paying to be an âidentified publisherâ is extortion.
Itâs best to know whether one can trust where one gets stuff from, identified or not.
@cjmacie Thank you for your reply and understanding the developer perspective
I agree about the trust, and our application is free software so anyone can review (and copy, edit) the code if they want
Are you still taking feedback or have you already wrapped up this cycle of development?
I finally had some time to install this. First impression: I like it, itâs nice to remind you to come back to the present moment. I also like the different versions you can use like âMay I be Happyâ.
Will use it for a while and then can give you some more feedback.
@Aminah Oh, we are very much open to feedback!
We are still in alpha.4 now and are working to create an alpha.5 version based on all the valuable feedback we are getting from you and others
Please give any and all feedback, iâm esp. grateful for areas that we can improve and for you being honest/open about the stress/guilt that we can feel when using the computer. There is a lot of habit energy of running that we have in our society. I have it too!
Kind Regards, Tord
Lovely. Okay so a few more points:
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In the main settings window, whatâs the big white box on the left for? Does it have some functionality I havenât discovered, or might it be used for some function yet to be invented?
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File > Export Data â doesnât do anything.
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[Iâm not 100% sure about this one, and even if it was something to think about I think it probably belongs to 2.0+, but Iâll put it out anywayâŚ] I think one factor that might diminish the power of auto-prompts (/increase their ignorability) is that they are predictable. With the resting function, I wonder if it might be worth considering whether it would be worth displaying just one or a few possible break options and randomizing what pops up.
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[Likewise, very much not sure about this oneâŚ] At the point that I picked up the app again, I happened to be engaging with a particular theme, so made some entries into the âRestingâ dialogue.
This in turn made me wonder if it would be helpful to have to have subgroups. A user would thus select a top level theme for whatever period they want and that would return a set of related prompts more tailored to a particular focus area they are engaging with.
In my own case, I stumbled onto the notion as a result of mulling over what exactly ethics-based gladness might be (as per something along the lines of eg. SN9.11 & AN11.11), but perhaps it could be turned to eg. the 5 themes for frequent reflection or whatever else. Now, I have to admit I havenât actually looked to see if yours is specifically a Buddhist oriented app (or positions itself in a more secular patch) but should it be, I think such contemplations might rightly be considered a good place to rest!
Iâd like to tie up, by again expressing my gratitude for your work. All be it a very sporadically at the minute, I do use and enjoy it. There are many brilliant aspects to the app, but one of my favourite is how unintrusive it is - this is a particularly impressive feat for an app whose specific purpose is to intrude (or supportively interrupt, to put it a bit better). I find youâve achieved an excellent balance between calling attention and being discrete.
As I mention its accomplishments, as stated / implied, a lot of the time I just donât start the app, or ignore a lot of the messages when I do, but the visual notifications (that briefly flash up by the system tray) very consistently prompt me in that second to âde-clenchâ. I guess in many respects itâs a small detail, but Iâd wrack it up as a considerable success â Iâll yet become a good Pavlovian subject!
And just one more final note, thanks for your kindness.
@Aminah Oh, thanks so much for this feedback! Let me go through things one at a time below:
The panel in the main settings window shows the âbreathing historyâ, recorded when you take breathing breaks, and we have recently updated this to have a small heading:
Is this okay do you think? Maybe we could display a text if there is no breathing history shown, something like âbreathing history will be shown here after you have started taking breathing breaksâ? Something else?
File > Export Data â doesnât do anything.
Thank you for pointing this out, we will fix this!
With the resting function, I wonder if it might be worth considering whether it would be worth displaying just one or a few possible break options and randomizing what pops up.
In an earlier version of the application we had a list of rest actions listed on the left side which had buttons for each of them and when the user pressed the button she would see an image associated with the rest action. We chose to leave this because we thought that the important thing was that the user getâs away from the computer (for health reasons itâs good to get up at least every 30 minutes i believe). Also we didnât want to get too much involved in what the user does when she is away from the computer. Yet another reason is that the user might take several actions at the same time
I still miss the old system a little bit though, because the images made it easier to remember different actions
As i have been using the application myself now for a long time i find that i usually go and make myself a cup of tea every 30 minutes, and sometimes i do some mini-chores like cleaning up or organizaing something small in the kitchen or in my work room. (I can also sometimes do some stretching exercises)
Any thoughts on all of this are most welcome!
I think one factor that might diminish the power of auto-prompts (/increase their ignorability) is that they are predictable.
Good point! We have been thinking about doing something like this for the breathing dialog
For the rest dialog: Once you are in full screen you canât really ignore it right? Or am i missing something?
There are many brilliant aspects to the app, but one of my favourite is how unintrusive it is - this is a particularly impressive feat for an app whose specific purpose is to intrude (or supportively interrupt, to put it a bit better). I find youâve achieved an excellent balance between calling attention and being discrete.
Oh, iâm so glad to read this! Do you mind if i add it to our list of testimonials? I can include or exclude your name, whatever you prefer? The testimonial may be presented for example on our website in the future if you agree
At the point that I picked up the app again, I happened to be engaging with a particular theme, so made some entries into the âRestingâ dialogue.
This in turn made me wonder if it would be helpful to have to have subgroups. A user would thus select a top level theme for whatever period they want and that would return a set of related prompts more tailored to a particular focus area they are engaging with.
Okay, this is an interesting idea and i can see that it can be useful, i will add it to our ideas list and also bring it up with the rest of the team
Right now we have a âmove to topâ button that can be used if you add new rest actions that youâd like to âprioritizeâ or improve the visibility of:
Not the same as your idea but might help you a bit?
very consistently prompt me in that second to âde-clenchâ. I guess in many respects itâs a small detail, but Iâd wrack it up as a considerable success
Iâm glad to hear this! Right now the text shown in these breathing notifications is the same text that is active for the (interactive) breathing dialog. Iâve found though that i have the same relationship to the breathing notifications as you do: I de-clench and sometimes adjust my posture a bit. Also i donât really read the text in the breathing notifications, perhaps because it doesnât connect with where i am at the moment
Because of all of this i have been thinking of using a different text for the breathing notifications, maybe something like âplease sit up straight and breathe mindfullyâ, this would connect more with where i am at the moment
Iâm very curious what you think about this idea, do you agree that it would be good to have a different text in these notifications?
In my own case, I stumbled onto the notion as a result of mulling over what exactly ethics-based gladness might be (as per something along the lines of eg. SN9.11 & AN11.11), but perhaps it could be turned to eg. the 5 themes for frequent reflection or whatever else. Now, I have to admit I havenât actually looked to see if yours is specifically a Buddhist oriented app (or positions itself in a more secular patch) but should it be, I think such contemplations might rightly be considered a good place to rest!
I and the other main developer (Marieke) in this project are both Buddhist practitioners, tough the application itself is secular, iâve written a bit about the underlying theory here
Marieke had the idea for a features: To set an intention in the application that the user can then follow up on or remember (it wasnât worked out in detail). We decided to not use this idea in the application because we want to go for simplicity, but i liked the idea so much that i asked her if we could maybe create another application for this, and she and i are in a discussion about that now. I can notify you if you are interested in this if you like? The five contemplations would be a nice to have in such an application for example
I havenât looked at the first two Sutras yet but hope to do so later on today. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas, itâs valuable and encouraging for me to read! I am trained in computer science/engineering but have been out of work for a long time because of some mental health issues and honestly because i donât want to work with weapon systems. Now i instead work with free open source software to try to improve mental well-being for people. You can see some projects and ideas over here: https://sunyatazero.github.io/projects.html
Ooooh! Right! Cool. I have to admit, I donât use the breathing dialogue. I think itâs a good idea, but just for me personally the mouse over just feels a bit cumbersome so I just ignore it.
Yes, I think that helps make it much clearer!
Seems like a reasonable idea to me, but I do think the heading you added already helps a lot to know what that space is for.
Good point. In fact, I might encourage ramping up that encouragement even more as I guess all too open I âcheatâ and do whatever can be done still at my desk.
An excellent principle, very evident in the app. I think one of the things I was thinking is that thereâs the really tricky point of the right suggestion to motivate the right person. So, itâs pathetic, but before I was sensible enough to remove it I was always alarmed to see the âmake teaâ prompt, concerned that it may end up killing me - Iâm addicted to tea, but my body doesnât handle caffeine well (yeah, sure, sure, there are all those effusion alternatives, but theyâre not bloominâ proper tea! - gosh, I need to go to rehab ). Some eg. qi-gong options seem much, much safer! But, again I think itâs that difficult thing of right for whom, and both keeping things to a minimum and putting enough suggestions in that one might connect both have valid arguments. More than anything, Iâd probably suggest letting the point go.
Not at all. Please feel free.
I have to run out now, but will pick up any questions I missed later.
Ooooh! Right! Cool. I have to admit, I donât use the breathing dialogue. I think itâs a good idea, but just for me personally the mouse over just feels a bit cumbersome so I just ignore it.
Is there anything we can do to make it easier? This is the most important part of the application from my perspective, and compared with other applications which allow the user to follow the breath, this is the only one i know that allows for mindful breathing rather than controlled breathing: The user is setting the pace of the breathing as the takes each breath
We have already (though itâs not documented inside the application) another way of breathing: By using the shift key. You can press and hold the shift key while breathing in and release the shift key when starting to breathe out. Can you try this and see if it is better for you?
(Weâve also had an idea of using the mouse buttons)
Good point. In fact, I might encourage ramping up that encouragement even more as I guess all too open I âcheatâ and do whatever can be done still at my desk.
In the latest (âdevelopmentâ) version of the application (which will eventually become alpha 5) we have now increased the size of the text âPlease move and walk mindfully when leaving the computerâ:
Will this help? Other ideas on what we can do?
I think one of the things I was thinking is that thereâs the really tricky point of the right suggestion to motivate the right person
Yes, for the breathing phrases we have put some effort into choosing things that will work for everyone, but we havenât thought as much about the rest actions. Maybe we could remove a few of them? About the tea i am also a tea addict but i always drink green/herbal tea, my system cannot handle caffine even in small amounts. Maybe we can just add âgreenâ in there so the user doesnât go on a caffine spree?
Thanks so much for your feedback! We havenât gotten much feedback yet from users so your thoughts are very valuable to us
Hi @sunyata_zero,
I just downloaded your application, but now I donât know how to proceed with the file Iâve got. Itâs a folder called âmindfulness-at-the-computer_alpha4_linux64_build1.tar.gzââwhat do I have to do with it?
Sorry if this is a silly question. I just need an instruction beginning from zeroâŚ