However, they create just another “system” that validates people based on criteria designed by others—which most likely will be done with a profit motive, and a beautiful white women on the informational pamphlet. This in turn generates another domineering form of hierarchy and authority, that in my opinion is not needed. Really, we shouldn’t be relying on a teacher for anything other than good spiritual friendship. With the aim of staying “politically correct,” I will not offer my criticisms of this article.
We see attempts at this “criterion” all over the place. “Three Month Mindfulness Meditation Course … only $295.” I have met teachers who have the “creds,” and to be honest, I find them to be no more wise than so many great people that are involved in discussion on this forum, for example.
We can walk out into the street and get ran over by a bus. It doesn’t matter how long the driver has been driving the bus, it is plainly an unfortunate aspect of human existence—death can come anytime.
For people to feel justified in their actions/choices, an objective criteria becomes needed. This is where the responsibility of the teacher begins. For the teacher to hold the burden of responsibility, a compensation is to be expected hence the profit motive you mentioned becomes legitimate, so is the sense of entitlement by the student who pays for the service and expects return on investment.
The world is addicted to this kind of dysfunctional relationships, where role playing and blame games is the cornerstone. The quality of the teacher is indicative of the quality of the students, and vice versa.
The dhamma on the other hand is freely given. The criteria set by the lord Buddha is enabling for generous teachers and genuine students to eventually meet:
Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool.
Though only for a moment a discerning person associates with a wise man, quickly he comprehends the Truth, just as the tongue tastes the flavor of the soup.
Should one find a man who points out faults and who reproves, let him follow such a wise and sagacious person as one would a guide to hidden treasure. It is always better, and never worse, to cultivate such an association.
Let him admonish, instruct and shield one from wrong; he, indeed, is dear to the good and detestable to the evil.
Do not associate with evil companions; do not seek the fellowship of the vile. Associate with the good friends; seek the fellowship of noble men.
I only sat one Goenka retreat, and that was about 14 years ago in Hong Kong. It was at the time the longest and strictest retreat I’d been on (others had been a few days at my local Thai Wat here in NZ).
I personally found it very useful, and the “Assistant Teacher” was actually quite helpful when I had some difficulties (you could request extra meetings). There was a local sitting group that provided support (which would not be the case in many places), though I didn’t investigate that as I was attending another group at the time.
My thought is that doing such a retreat as a first step could have been extremely tough. And I did not like the attitude of the “one true approach” that encourages a separateness from the rest of the Dhamma world. I already had an established practice (our local Wat teaches loosely based on a Mahasi approach), so I continued with that, though the experience of developing the body-scan practice intensively was helpful, and something I do use from time to time.
@Christopher … yes, preparing the ground can prevent misfortunate, a good teacher could help
as what the late Ven. Mogok Sayadaw had said in his dhamma-talk about the quality of a Dhamma Teacher, a qualified one can help people to realized the Truth. An unqualified teacher only led people ashtray, they have no answer to any question. May be the late Ven. Ajahn Mun, Ven. Ajahn Lee, Ven. Ajahn Chah, etc had talk about the same?
@rcdaley … maybe, its very human and we cannot predict what is actually their motive(s)
In respond to your comment, it is just the logic that can help us. And, I personally always make an old proverb in our country as my guidance to choose a guru ie The Rice proverb …
@Bundokji … some organization however still held Vipassana retreat with no cost at all, not even regristration fee, the teacher have to come at their own cost sometimes even they bring some food
@rcdaley … in a certain meditation centre even the dana boxes are not available for public … of course they live from the generosity of people, but they never ask for donation … but, due of that, some people send a lot of donation … in some cases they do retreat without asking any donation but rice, vegetables, meat, dish, etc coming without being asked …
@rcdaley … yes, correct, I saw that joining a retreat in the western part of the world mostly, not all, they asked for a certain donation, a donation but a certain value …
@rcdaley not ‘sell’ but depend on donators they ‘give’ for free … they also provide a free ‘piggy-bank’, and regularly they do a social-charity services and the already full piggy-bank can be open by us to give us the chance to help other people in-need … there is still ideal thing in this world but not much, but I saw one … I believe the Goenka Foundation do same thing but I am not sure …
I’ve experienced meditation-induced psychosis which led me to do some research and thinking about it. At the very minimum, a (retreat) teacher should be aware that this can and does happen, know when to tell someone to stop sitting meditation and switch to low intensity active meditation (walking/sweeping etc) or indeed help arrange for someone to pick them up, take them home and seek medical help. They don’t need to be a mental health expert or counsellor but a bit of ‘mental emergency first aid’ can help save lives.
I’ve heard a few stories from senior Western monks in Thai forest traditions about people who somehow managed to get through the monastic vetting process, ended up in robes, and then had a spectacular breakdown. By “spectacular breakdown” I mean giving a 24-hour non-stop Dhamma talk, by the end of which they were so mentally unstable they had to disrobe. The underlying problem existed long before the marathon Dhamma talk, of course. I’ve often wondered how someone like that managed to make it into robes in the first place. The living conditions in these strict forest monasteries can be quite punishing. I mean, everyone struggles when it’s been 23 hours since their last meal, they didn’t sleep last night because it was the biweekly all-night practice session, its 40 degrees with 90 percent humidity and there’s no AC, and its the rainy season so your clothes haven’t been dry in days and are starting to rot while you wear them. So maybe it’s hard to tell who will eventually crack.
@Ehipassiko … true, if we are asking people around and they are true (not lying purposely in order not to offend the so called teacher) there will a lot of cases but it was burried deep in the backyards. I have seen a yogi suddenly got angry and smash a table during lunch. Yogis suddenly overcome by hatred and suddenly throw water to another yogi that made him astonished of what had happen. It was somehow closed and buried deep by the organizer of the retreat.
The main factor because the incompetence of the so-called self-proclaim guru or even self-proclaim Arahant or Sotapanna.
I like this cartoon from another dicussion. Day dreaming of being enlighten … and yet these world is full of day-dreamers who think they are already a qualified guru of meditation.
Ven. Analayo writes here about buddhist monks doing mass suicide after the Buddha gave teachings on the absence of beauty. I think I read about it some time ago and it was quite dissapointing to me. This event appears in the Samyukta-āgama but it seems there are other records of this event.
A medicine can become into a poison, and even the best doctor with best intention can do wrong decisions. It is good to have measures prepared in case an unknown side effect appears, but it is impossible to control everything. That is the conclusion I got from all this.
I would like to know what scholars on Early buddhism have to say about this event and what Ven. Analayo writes about it.
Best wishes
the ‘Megan Vogt’ case was a case of INCAPACITY of a meditator to handle the VEDANA that emerge and INABILTY of the so-called SELF-PROCLAIM -TEACHER to know and to handle the VEDANA that emerge. Just, emerging VEDANA they could not handle, emerging CITTA will worsen the case.
In the case of the suiciding monk it was not out due to INABILITY to handle, instead, it was out of the INSIGHT that they have acquired. The ANATTA.
It is however to my personal view or opinion. It may be wrong.
I’m thinking this might be good to make into it’s own topic.