MN30 Jhānas are higher than knowledge and vision

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@sabbamitta

Of course, EBT experts have done extraordinary work and the benefits are many. But I also see a lot of “side effects” which, sorry if my term is too harsh, are too much. For example, there is a tendency to want to see the Sutta Pitaka as sterile from the ascetic culture before Buddhism. Something like this is probably the method commonly used by the scribes in the Abrahamic religion. Where a newer religion wants to appear sterile from the influence of the previous religion; because the newest religion is directly from the word of God. But of course in Buddhism that can’t be the case. In fact, Buddhism cannot be separated from its emergence from the ascetic culture that existed at the time when Prince Siddharta practiced and achieved Buddhahood.

I started to feel shocked when I read Bhante Analayo stating that AN9.45 was an “error in transfer” because according to Bhante Analayo AN9.45 was no different from AN9.44. Even though the contents of the meaning are different even if only because of a few terms, these terms may be very difficult for us to understand if only from a literal translation. …But I think this has deviated from the MN30 discussion which is indeed interesting to discuss.

Oh yes, thank you for the included literature links regarding The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist Texts

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Where were people doing that here? In their interpretation of each text’s meaning? which would have saved them from the confusion of their differences?

I’d think if they use the same terms, it refers to the same thing as seen below. But there’s two problems with that as you mentioned. These suttas could have been very separated by time and place and then organized next to each other because they look similar. Or, the context within the sutta changes the meaning around that term as you can see even here the sentences aren’t comparable.

Take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.
Idha, brāhmaṇa, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.
This is something better and finer than knowledge and vision.
Ayampi kho, brāhmaṇa, dhammo ñāṇadassanena uttaritaro ca paṇītataro ca.

Nor do they become indulgent and fall into negligence regarding that accomplishment in immersion. Being diligent, they achieve knowledge and vision.
So tāya samādhisampadāya na majjati nappamajjati na pamādaṁ āpajjati, appamatto samāno ñāṇadassanaṁ ārādheti.

However, both of these suttas end with listing out each step of the path with knowledge and vision last, then stating that those are inferior to the unshakable freedom.

And so, brahmin/mendicants, this spiritual life is not lived for the sake of possessions, honor, and popularity, or for accomplishment in ethics, or for accomplishment in immersion, or for knowledge and vision. Rather, the goal, heartwood, and final end of the spiritual life is the unshakable freedom of heart.

Which would unify interpretations.