SuttaCentral
Please do quote me where I ever made such a claim. I believe you will be entirely unable.
The quote of mine above is regarding DN 33, which you gave as your specific source for the Buddha’s definition of sallekha. Although that sutta makes no mention of sallekha. And I never called either sutta ‘useless’.
I think in this we have both stumbled on the danger of pronouns.
I thought I had made it rather clear by summarixing the exchange so that the thread and steps of logic were totally apparent:
Ok anyway, we don’t seem to be getting further with the sutta nor the word, so I may get back to my studies… It was an interesting conversation.
I should provide some background that explains my clumsiness.
I am going blind.
Because I am going blind, I have lost the ability to see and grasp large chunks of text all at once. For me the world has shrunk to a few lines of text at a time. For example, I cannot see all that you have posted all at once. It is simply too much to see and I can only see little.
I do a lot better with small concise self-contained statements. For example, this post is ALL that I can see on a screen.
Ah ok fair enough. It’s awesome that you still can read, so many teachings from which to gain inspiration from!
If I had misunderstood that you had gained yoru understanding of the definition of sallekha from DN 33, do let me know, and if you did have a definition, welcome to post it with the source. Otherwise perhaps some time in the future we will receive notifications from this post when someone comes up with more light on the topic. I found the Jain angle interesting and would love to hear more about that if it comes to light.
Thank you for being gentle with my clumsiness.
My understanding of sallekha is really only based on my faith in Bhante Sujato’s translation of MN8. I have a working hypothesis that Self Effacement (MN8) is required for the End of Defilements (DN33) via the relinquishing of the five grasping aggregates that constitute Identity View (MN44).
I do not have your skill in Pali to defend the above. It is simply what I have gleaned from Bhante Sujato’s translations in helping my own practice. His scholarship so exceeds my own that I find it logical for me to have faith in his translations.
I am curious about the Jain hypothesis as well. DN33 starts with a harsh reflection on the Jain. Therefore, like you, I shall await other voices.
The ‘definition’ will be driven by the context, in which it is found. What we know about jhana is that it’s an integeral part of noble eightfold path but EBTs doesn’t hold jhana in the role of removing defilements… anywhere at all.
Removal of defilements falls under Right effort. See Vitakkasanta sutta. Salla might have have the meaning of scalpel or sharp blade, to cut away the ‘fat’.
Are you sure of this?
The vision and insight which results in destruction of the taints is across many suttas described as being brought about by absorption (jhana). See MN11, AN9.34, AN9.38, AN9.39, AN9.40, AN9.44, and AN9.47.
In the topic below we discussed that:
As I said, jhanas don’t destroy taints. Jhana leads to wisdom. Wisdom is the quality that destroys defilements.
The role of removing defilement doesn’t belong to anyone or any specific part of the process, factor of the path or boddhipakkhya dhamma .
It is like cooking rice.
Having either heat, water, time, and a pot separately does not give you cooked rice. It is the combination of those things that does.
"And what, monks, is right effort?
[ i ] "There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen.[ ii ] "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen.
[ iii ] "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen.
[ iv ] “He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort.”
— SN 45.8
Right effort: Right Effort: samma vayamo
The wisdom of a mind purified by jhāna, destroys taints. Right?
Talking about wisdom destroying taints as if that wisdom is separate from jhāna training would be odd.