Multiple types of arahant: a later development? Is the Pavāranā Sutta corrupted?

[Mat]

@Brother_Joe

Yes, I think I understand what you mean. For me this is basically the question, ‘how can we know what is (the Buddha’s, or any Noble One’s) Right View?’ or maybe ‘is it possible to know what Right View is, as the Buddha intended?’

It’s a gradual development of faith or saddha, pretty much like the gradual development of any relationship:

There is the case where, when conviction has arisen, one visits [a teacher]. Having visited, one grows close. Having grown close, one lends ear. Having lent ear, one hears the Dhamma. Having heard the Dhamma, one remembers it. Remembering, one penetrates the meaning of the teachings. Penetrating the meaning, one comes to an agreement through pondering the teachings. There being an agreement through pondering the teachings, desire arises. When desire has arisen, one is willing. When one is willing, one contemplates. Having contemplated, one makes an exertion. Having made an exertion, one realizes with the body the ultimate truth and, having penetrated it with discernment, sees it [10]. MN70

@Senryu

However I also believe that stream entry can happen spontaneously even in the absense of those factors.

If you are thinking of zen satori type experiences, I think they are very different from stream entry.
Even when the Buddha was mentally guiding people to stream entry he had a method which does map on to the above steps, the N8FP, the three trainings etc albeit not overtly explicitly. See here for the gradual discourse (anupubbiya kata): Ud 5.3

@Senryu

And also can happen in response to an encounter with an ariya, such as the advaita satsang even!

"The basic practice of neo-Advaita is self-inquiry, via the question “Who am I?”, or simply the direct recognition of the non-existence of the “I” or “ego.” This recognition is taken to be equal to the Advaita Vedanta recognition of the identity of Atman and Brahman, or the recognition of the “Formless Self.” Neo-Advaita - Wikipedia

Asking a question such as ‘Who am I’ is said to be unwise contemplation in MN2: SuttaStudy 4: Sabbasava sutta 'All the taints' MN2. The later inquiry seems to end with a Large Self outside of the small self- pretty much like Ekhart Tolle’s teachings. This is one of the views which is said to be wrong according to the following sutta:

"The one who, when delineating a self, delineates it as formless and infinite, either delineates it as formless and infinite in the present, or of such a nature that it will [naturally] become formless and infinite [in the future/after death], or he believes that ‘Although it is not yet that way, I will convert it into being that way.’ This being the case, it is proper to say that a fixed view of a self formless and infinite obsesses him. DN15

@Senryu

This is also done in the Tibetan tradition, with what are called ‘pointing out instructions’, or ‘introduction to the nature of mind’ - a very important aspect of Tibetan Buddhism. (Of course they do not call it stream entry,

I believe this is because Tibetan monks are aware it isn’t that. It could be called an introduction to mindfulness of the mind (cittanupassana) as per EBTs.

@Senryu

you must avoid stream entry at all costs, since once you get it you will only live a maximum of 7 lifetimes, and thus your bodhisattva quest is prematurely terminated!

More the reason why what they practice isn’t stream entry, unless of course you assume thousands of years of Tibetan buddhism has got it wrong and has accidentally turning themselves into stream entrants.

with metta