Greetings, All!
This is probably as futile as a blind turtle aiming for a life preserver out on the open sea, but the in the title phrase is an excerpt taken from DN 15, the Mahānidāna Sutta. It is a DO link unique to that discourse’s 9-link chain.
There was a study done in German (I don’t recall by whom, though my gut says Vetter) which looked at all five versions of the passage inwhich this phrase is found. Does anyone here know of this study? perhaps who wrote it or what publication it appeared in.
Thank you.
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For those playing at home the phrase is nāmarūpapaccayā phasso from DN15, “the passage” presumably refers to same, and DA13, T14, T52 and MA97
Here is the passage:
When asked, ‘Is there a specific condition for contact?’ you should answer, ‘There is.’
‘Atthi idappaccayā phasso’ti iti puṭṭhena satā, ānanda, atthītissa vacanīyaṁ.
If they say, ‘What is a condition for contact?’ you should answer, ‘Name and form are conditions for contact.’
‘Kiṁpaccayā phasso’ti iti ce vadeyya, ‘nāmarūpapaccayā phasso’ti iccassa vacanīyaṁ.
The Vetter article might be:
The DA13 equivilent is?:
「阿難！我以是 義，知受由觸，緣觸有受，我所說者，義在於 此。阿難！緣名色有觸，此為何義？若使一切 眾生無有名色者，寧有心觸不？」
答曰：「無也。」
「若使一切眾生無形色相貌者，寧有身觸 不？」
答曰：「無也。」
「阿難！若無名色，寧有觸不？」
答 曰：「無也。」
「阿難！我以是緣，知觸由名色，緣名 色有觸，我所說者，義在於此。阿難！緣識有 名色，此為何義？若識不入母胎者，有名色 不？」
答曰：「無也。」
I guess the MA97 text is?
「阿難！若有問者：『更樂有緣耶？』當如是答：『更樂有緣。』若有問者：『更樂有何緣？』當如是答：『緣名色也。』當知所謂緣名色有更樂。阿難！所行、所緣有名身，離此行、離此緣有有對更樂耶？」
答曰：「無也。」
「阿難！所行、所緣有色身，離此行、離此緣有增語更樂耶？」
答曰：「無也。」
T14’s is maybe:
「如是，阿難！是為有、是為本、是為習、是為因緣，痛令有更，心更因緣，阿難！令有痛。若有問：『有因緣更不？』對：『為有。』『何等更有因緣？』對：『為名字因緣。』當從是，阿難！可知，令從名字因緣更。若從所處有，亦從所處應受，令名身聚有。若，阿難！從所處有，亦從所處應受無有，為有更有名字不？」
T52 has:
「復次，六處以何為緣？所謂名色為緣。由名色故即生六處；名色若無六處何有？此名色者，謂即色法及心等法有積聚故，即此名色與彼識法，互相為緣和合得生，是為名色。阿難！當知名色法，是虛妄法而不究竟，此集此因此生此緣得有六處，是故六處亦不究竟。
Hope that is helpful! Let me know if thats not the Vetter article, i got it from Bucknells:
8891-Article Text-8699-1-10-20110301.pdf (2.0 MB)
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Yes! It certainly is. Thank you ever so much, @josephzizys!
And, while I’ve got you here, since you went to all the trouble to dig out those parallel passages, you want to have some fun and run through them, see what Vetter says, and see what sense we can make of the whole thing? As I remember, things get really convoluted once Vetter starts zig-zagging back and forth through the parallels.
Just a thought.
(I know this is Q&A, but maybe we could get a mod to switch it over to Watercooler or something.)
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Sounds like fun @knotty! I may be a b8t intermittent because im currently on the road but i would love to!
Do you have a pdf of the original article you can pm me?
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That’s fine. I’ve got so much on my plate at the moment that I could use the pacing.
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