Nanamoli’s Dependent origination

Based on the below, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to understand death as something we are always inescapably liable to:

Bhikkhus, there are these five themes that should often be reflected upon by a woman or a man, by a householder or one gone forth. What five? (1) A woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, should often reflect thus: ‘I am subject to old age; I am not exempt from old age.’ (2) A woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, should often reflect thus: ‘I am subject to illness; I am not exempt from illness.’ (3) A woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, should often reflect thus: ‘I am subject to death; I am not exempt from death.’ (4) A woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, should often reflect thus: ‘I must be parted and separated from everyone and everything dear and agreeable to me.’ (5) A woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, should often reflect thus: ‘I am the owner of my kamma, the heir of my kamma; I have kamma as my origin, kamma as my relative, kamma as my resort; I will be the heir of whatever kamma, good or bad, that I do.’ -AN 5.57

Couple with:

There are, bhikkhus, these three kinds of intoxication. What three? Intoxication with youth, intoxication with health, and intoxication with life. (1) An uninstructed worldling, intoxicated with youth, engages in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. With the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination, in the lower world, in hell. (2) An uninstructed worldling, intoxicated with health, engages in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. With the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination, in the lower world, in hell. (3) An uninstructed worldling, intoxicated with life, engages in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. With the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the plane of misery, in a bad destination, in the lower world, in hell. -AN 3.39

…it looks to be the careless intoxication that impedes the ability to understand the full scope of what we are subject to in this life. Based on my understanding of the Serbian Ajahn Nyanamoli and Ven. Nanavira, this is the immediacy of death that they are describing: an intoxication with life, understood to be mine, still includes an inherent liability to death, and this must be thoroughly contemplated to undermine the intoxication. Previously in AN 3.39:

Again, it occurred to me: ‘An uninstructed worldling, though himself subject to death, not exempt from death, feels repelled, humiliated, and disgusted when he sees another who has died, overlooking his own situation. Now I too am subject to death and am not exempt from death. Such being the case, if I were to feel repelled, humiliated, and disgusted when seeing another who has died, that would not be proper for me.’ When I reflected thus, my intoxication with life was completely abandoned.

Otherwise, the individual remains liable to both, i.e., birth and death remain as aspects of the experience; of samsara; of the “origin of this mass of suffering.” This is the obvious difference from the linear understanding of other models of DO, where birth and death are understood as events to be experienced, and as such, future lives are the liability. I do not believe Ajahn Nyanamoli would take issue with seeing the next life as liability in this way, but would likely stress that it endures presenty here and now, which is none other than how death (and likely destination) is described above in AN 3.39.

From that point of view, this is what the two models have in common, however, in terms of samsara, there are always innumerable births to consider; eons and eons of births that were once a mere liability, but became an actuality because of a lack of understanding the four noble truths - not to mention the potential for innumerable future births if the problem is not solved now. The three lives model doesn’t disregard this by any means, but both Vens Nanavira and Nyanamoli understand DO as applying to a much broader and more immediate situation, and prefer to avoid a scheme that would limit the extent to which any of the factors can be presently discerned and felt.

It should be noted, however, that this doesn’t alter what the twelve factors are defined as individually, but introduces significant depth to roles of each in the origin of the mass of suffering. This seems to be one of the most often misunderstood points.

As an aside…I don’t recall anything specific, but this was likely discussed at various points in the lengthy correspondence between the British Ven. Nanamoli and Ven. Nanavira.

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Indeed. Sutta’s description:

“And what is ageing and death, what is the origin of ageing and death, what is the cessation of ageing and death, what is the way leading to the cessation of ageing and death? The ageing of beings in the various orders of beings, their old age, brokenness of teeth, greyness of hair, wrinkling of skin, decline of life, weakness of faculties—this is called ageing. The passing of beings out of the various orders of beings, their passing away, dissolution, disappearance, dying, completion of time, dissolution of the aggregates,122 laying down of the body—this is called death. MN9

is perfectly valid, but in itself incomplete since it is quite impersonal and objective. But if such event is associated with ignorance, ageing and death start to be “mine”.

Nanamoli Thera: It (the P/S) is not a temporal cause/effect chain: It is not symbolic since, if we look, we can find each member in ourselves…

Regarding the rebirth one doesn’t have to know, how it happenes, but why it happens, or on what it depends:

as long as there is the attitude ‘I am’ there is organization of the five faculties of eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body. S. 22:47

So Nanamoli’s ideas on dependent arising as a structure of being which depends on ignorance offer practical solutions, but the point is to see it for oneself…

What is my present situation, do I know that I don’t know? Or I don’t know that I don’t know; in such case I even don’t want to know.

I was away during the lead up to Christmas, but am back now :slight_smile:

On the following:

The idea that birth is the assumption of an identity is not necessarily contradictory to the maintenance of an identity before you die. I believe he talks about how dependent origination works at different levels (e.g. moment to moment, lifetime to lifetime etc.)

We create many identities while we are alive, some of which we hold onto at death. This can then become a basis for rebirth.

A quote from Shape of Suffering:

…there is no single, definitive time frame for the ways in which dependent co-arising can produce suffering and stress. A single sequence can last a mere moment or many years…

Hmm… ‘seems to say’ is different from ‘says’. Can you point me to a page number where this was your understanding? I’d like to understand your context before I respond to this.

Hi. It was already quoted from page 6, where “rebirth” is link 10; even though earlier Thanissaro defined “jati” as “identity”. Therefore, it seems for Thanissaro, “jati” can mean both “identity” & “physical rebirth”.

Also, Thanissaro seems to be saying a “jati” occurs at the moment of death therefore it is not clear if this “rebirth/jati” is occurring before death or after death. Is there any suttas that say “death” (“marana”) is the “condition” (“paccaya”) for “jati”?

To repeat, from page 6:

If you continue craving to maintain this identity (8b) even as you die, it will lead you to cling (9) to opportunities for rebirth (10 and 11) as they appear at the moment of death, and the full sequence of dependent co-arising could then cover more than one lifetime, leading to further suffering and stress on into the indefinite future

Thanissaro page 6

Again on page 12, where again “jati” seems to be both “identity” & “rebirth”:

“The birth/rebirth of what?”

Page 19, where “rebirth” or “jati” seems to occur before attachment:

Similarly, when the causes leading to the rebirth of attachment in the mind are severed, suffering is immediately ended; at the same time, the causes leading to future rebirth on the physical level are severed as well.

Lessons about the process of death and rebirth on the physical level, for example, can be gained from observing the present-moment death and rebirth of attachments in the mind.

Page 106, where “rebirth” seems to occur before “becoming”:

Reflecting on the aging and death of other individuals helps to undercut lust. Reflecting on one’s own inevitable aging and death inspires heedfulness in developing skillful qualities of mind and acting in skillful ways—the sort of skillful kamma that will lead to rebirth on pleasant levels of becoming. Reflecting on the inevitability of aging and death in any level of becoming on which one might take rebirth, however, induces a sense of urgency in pursuing the path that leads beyond all becoming, birth, aging, and death so as to arrive at the deathless.

Now, if we examine a sutta such as SN 12.10, here, it seems to say the whole process of birth, aging & death is “reborn”, as follows:

‘Alas, this world has fallen into trouble. It’s born, grows old, dies, passes away, and is reborn,

‘kicchaṁ vatāyaṁ loko āpanno jāyati ca jīyati ca mīyati ca cavati ca upapajjati ca.

SN 12.10

Note: the word “jayati” above seems to merely be the verb form of “jati”, where “jati” is a noun.

Note: the word “upapajjati” is translated above as “reborn”.

Therefore, as already suggested, it seems what is “reborn” in SN 12.10 is a new “jayati/jati”. Since a new “jayati/jati” is “reborn”, it seems this “jati” can only have one meaning. In other words, it seems an “identity-jati” cannot be physically “reborn”. It seems as though “jati” can only refer to either identity birth or physical rebirth but not both. :slightly_smiling_face:

Okay, I see your line of reasoning. However SN12.11 indicates that a more nuanced perspective may be necessary:

Mendicants, there are these four fuels. They maintain sentient beings that have been born and help those that are about to be born. What four? Solid food, whether coarse or fine; contact is the second, mental intention the third, and consciousness the fourth. These are the four fuels that maintain sentient beings that have been born and help those that are about to be born.

What is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of these four fuels? Craving. And what is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of craving? Feeling…

Here, intention and consciousness relate to the links of Upādāna (clinging) and Bhava (becoming), which sit between Taṇhā (craving) and Jati (birth). We can infer this because intention and consciousness proceed craving but precede birth.

Jati, in this sutta may taken as entity-birth (I am avoiding the use of physical-birth because jati as mentioned in the 12 links of dependent origination should be equally as applicable to the formless realms).

Nonetheless, the same sequence of events that lead to the birth of an entity is also required for the maintenance of that entity. Thus, maintenance of birth may be readily substituted for birth in the 12 links.

Maintenance of an entity via intention and consciousness is just another way of saying identity-birth. This is because identity can be broken down into intentions and consciousness. Since intentions and consciousness are not static, there is identity-birth over different spans of time.

So one could say that although birth, as commonly used, means entity-birth, birth as referenced in dependent origination encompasses both entity-birth and the maintenance of an entity that has been born (i.e. identity-birth).

Incidentally, the fact that solid food, contact, intention and consciousness proceed craving and precede birth in this sutta may be one of the reasons why Ajahn Thanissaro views dependent origination as a fractal, where one cycle of dependent origination contains many smaller cycles of dependent origination.

I would go as far as to say that dependent origination needs to be viewed in a fractal manner for this sutta to make sense. As soon as dependent origination is viewed in this manner, the meaning of jati must expand to be broader than entity-birth (i.e. it must also encompass identity-birth).

Hi. SN 12.11 does not use the word “jati”. SN 12.11 uses the word “bhuta”, often translated as “comes to be”:

“Mendicants, there are these four fuels. They maintain sentient beings that have been born and help those that are about to be born.

“cattārome, bhikkhave, āhārā bhūtānaṁ vā sattānaṁ ṭhitiyā sambhavesīnaṁ vā anuggahāya.

SN 12.11

Mendicants, do you see that this has come to be?”
Bhūtamidanti, bhikkhave, passathā”ti?

“Yes, sir.”
“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“Do you see that it originated with that as fuel?”
“­Ta­d­āhāra­sambhava­n­ti­, bhikkhave, passathā”ti?

MN 38
:sunny:

Jati is not in this sutta (SN 12.11); apart from indirectly at the end.

To me, the above interpretation is very generous. The word for “maintenance” is “ṭhitiyā”, which is not found in the definition of “jati” in SN 12.2.

Personally, the relevance of the above statement is not discernable to me. In other words, the teaching of the Four Nutriments seems to focus on craving (tanha) rather than on jati (birth). For example, SN 12.63 says:

“Wouldn’t they eat that food just so they could make it across the desert?”

“Nanu te, bhikkhave, yāvadeva kantārassa nittharaṇatthāya āhāraṁ āhāreyyun”ti?

“Yes, sir.”
“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“I say that this is how you should regard solid food.

“‘Evameva khvāhaṁ, bhikkhave, kabaḷīkāro āhāro daṭṭhabbo’ti vadāmi.

When solid food is completely understood, desire for the five kinds of sensual stimulation is completely understood.

Kabaḷīkāre, bhikkhave, āhāre pariññāte pañca kāmaguṇiko rāgo pariññāto hoti.

When desire for the five kinds of sensual stimulation is completely understood, a noble disciple is bound by no fetter that might return them again to this world.

When contact as fuel is completely understood, the three feelings are completely understood.

When mental intention as fuel is completely understood, the three cravings are completely understood.

When consciousness as fuel is completely understood, name and form is completely understood. When name and form are completely understood, a noble disciple has nothing further to do, I say.

:dizzy:

SN 12.11 seems to simply say solid food, contact, intention & consciousness can be objects of craving. That is all. For me, SN 12.11 does not relate to the “jati” debate.

I think SN 12.12 supports my opinion because when SN 12.12 negates a ‘self’ or ‘who’ that consumes the Four Nutriments, it stops the negation at upadana (grasping) and then says grasping is the condition for bhava (becoming). In other words, SN 12.12, similar to SN 12.11, does not directly include “jati” in the discussion of the Four Nutriments. :slightly_smiling_face:

Yes, fair point. I should probably have said Jati, from the way the sutta goes, may be taken as entity-birth. My aim, primarily, was to clarify why I used entity-birth rather than physical-birth, rather than to say that jati was in the sutta.

Jati is used in SN12.2, as part of the standard description of the dependent origination, but is not defined. The Buddha seems to assume that his listener knows what it means.

If we want to take the definition angle, we may ask why the translation of the following pali verse into English contains the word rebirth even though the word jati is absent:

SN12.12:
viññāṇāhāro āyatiṁ puna­b­bha­vā­bhi­nibbattiyā paccayo, tasmiṁ bhūte sati saḷāyatanaṁ
Consciousness is a fuel that conditions rebirth into a new state of existence in the future.

One can assume that this is because the alternate pali phrasing used above is functionally equivalent to rebirth.

Now we have a basis with which jati may be defined by other pali words:

Jati is defined as rebirth. Some combination of puna­b­bha­vā and bhūte, within this context, is also defined as rebirth. Therefore Jati and puna­b­bha­vā / bhūte have some functional equivalence (assuming the translation is correct of course).

Moving on to maintenance or ṭhitiyā. SN12.11 mentions that maintenance is an activity that living beings engage in. Therefore, some part of the 12 links must encompass this function, because it describes the entire cycle of being, and being includes maintenance.

To maintain a living being, the being must first be born. That excludes the first 10 links of dependent origination. This leaves only jati and jaramarana. It cannot be included in jaramarana because decay and death are the opposite of maintenance. Thus, the only reasonable place to include it is within jati.

To simplify a little, what I am saying is that in both SN12.11 and SN12.12, contact and consciousness are described as having craving as a preceding condition even though dependent origination describes the reverse. If dependent origination is taken a simple linear progression (especially where jati is taken as entity-birth), this results in a contradiction. This is a contradiction that can be neatly explained by taking the view that dependent origination is fractal in nature. If it is accepted that dependent origination is fractal in nature, then jati can no longer be restricted to only entity-birth.

SN 12.2 certainly defines “jati”, as follows:

Yā tesaṁ tesaṁ sattānaṁ tamhi tamhi sattanikāye jāti sañjāti okkanti abhinibbatti khandhānaṁ pātubhāvo āyatanānaṁ paṭilābho.

It seems a little too soon for “moving on” because the definition of “jati” in SN 12.2 was overlooked.

Where does SN 12.11 mention the above? Please quote. Thank you

The above has been discussed at least twice recently on the forum. It seems a contradiction to use a translation by Sujato to support the ideas of Thanissaro. The Pali word translated above by Sujato as “rebirth” is “ā­bhi­nibbatti”, which most translators translate as “production”. Thanissaro translates as follows:

'Consciousness-nutriment for the production of future coming-into-being.

Phagguna Sutta: To Phagguna

MN 93 supports the above translation, when it says:

‘Please gentlemen, let anyone here who was born in a family of aristocrats, brahmins, or chieftains take a drill-stick made of teak, sal, frankincense wood, sandalwood, or cherry wood, light a fire and produce heat.

‘āyantu bhonto ye tattha khattiyakulā brāhmaṇakulā rājaññakulā uppannā, sākassa vā sālassa vā salaḷassa vā candanassa vā padumakassa vā uttarāraṇiṁ ādāya, aggiṁ abhinibbattentu, tejo pātukarontu.

:dizzy:

We are now back to where we started today. When Bhikkhu Sujato’s translation of SN 12.11 uses the word “born”, the Pali here is “bhuta” rather than “jati”. “Bhuta”, including by Sujato (such as in MN 38), is often translated as “comes to be”. As mentioned, when SN 12.12 refers to what has come to be, it stops at “bhava”. In other words, it seems to refer to the “bhava” that has come to be.

Possibly you research suttas other than SN 12.11 to support Thanissaro’s ideas. :face_with_monocle:

Hmm… I was looking at this SN. So let me try again with the right sutta.

We have:

  • sañjāti - birth; outcome; origin
  • okkanti - coming down (into); entering (the womb), conception
  • abhinibbatti - production; becoming; birth, rebirth
  • pātubhāva - appearance; coming into manifestation

Aside from okkanti, which directly references entering the womb, the other words are seemingly connected to entity-birth only by implication.

If we look just at birth in formless realms, okkanti wouldn’t apply, at which point you would depend on the other words to describe a formless birth. From this, we know that the words sañjāti, okkanti etc. cannot be used interchangeably. Each word stands alone and describes a different way in which one may be seen to be born or reborn.

Since each word stands alone, we may ask whether some words may apply to identity-birth. At a glance, there seems to be nothing that would preclude one or more of sañjāti, abhinibbatti or pātubhāva from describing identity-birth as well.

I was being imprecise; the above is the meaning I inferred from it. The direct quote is below, after which I will address how I came to the inference.

…Solid food, whether coarse or fine; contact is the second, mental intention the third, and consciousness the fourth. These are the four fuels that maintain sentient beings that have been born…

The four fuels cannot maintain a being unless there is active participation:

  • Coarse food could not maintain a being unless they decided to eat it (unless they were force fed, but that is not the majority case).
  • Contact may happen without actively deciding to partake, but much contact does happen because beings seek it out.
  • Intention, by definition, requires active participation
  • Consciousness may happen without actively deciding to partake, but much consciousness does happen because beings seek it out.

Maintenance may be used in a passive sense where intention is not a factor (e.g. the Earth maintains a minimum distance from the Sun). However, as shown above, intention is always a factor for one of the fuels and partially a factor for the others. Therefore, maintenance must be interpreted in the active sense at least some of the time (e.g. the mechanic maintains the car).

Any intentional act to ensure longevity may be termed as maintenance. By definition, any intentional act is an activity that living beings engage in, by virtue of it being intentional.

Thank you for the clarification on ā­bhi­nibbatti, although I believe the same conclusion applies.

The objection you raise is not an easy one to navigate. On the one hand Ajahn Thanissaro’s translations, which I often prefer over others, are not typically accepted in this forum. On the other hand, objections are raised when I use translations that are accepted by the forum, because they are used to support a view put forward by Ajahn Thanissaro.

So I will try and describe my perspective using both sets of translations:

Pali
viññāṇāhāro āyatiṁ puna­b­bha­vā­bhi­nibbattiyā paccayo, tasmiṁ bhūte sati saḷāyatanaṁ

Bhante Sujato’s translation
Consciousness is a fuel that conditions rebirth into a new state of existence in the future.

Ajahn Thanissaro’s translation
Consciousness-nutriment for the production of future coming-into-being.

The two different translations are completely consistent with each translator’s view of what jati is:

Bhante Sujato
Uses the word rebirth as a translation for ā­bhi­nibbatti. He also uses it in place of jati. Thus, he sees a functional equivalence between jati and ā­bhi­nibbatti.

Ajahn Thanissaro
Uses the words production of future coming-into-being, where coming-into-being is consistent with both entity-birth and identity-birth. Thus, he establishes a different functional equivalence. But it is a functional equivalence nonetheless.

The underlying principle is that if different words in Pali are translated into the same word in English, the translator must see some kind of functional equivalence between the two. If bhuta is translated by Bhante Sujato as both born and comes to be then that just goes to strengthen my point.

As mentioned, when SN 12.12 refers to what has come to be, it stops at “bhava”. In other words, it seems to refer to the “bhava” that has come to be.

I think I see where you’re trying to go with this… but it doesn’t make sense within the context of the sutta. Okkanti is one of the words used to define jati, and means entering the womb. A being that is not yet drawn to the physical plane of existence cannot benefit from coarse food. There must at least be an embryo that they are connected to. Therefore, to say that the sutta does not refer to a birth of a being merely because the word bhava is used rather than jati would render the sutta unintelligible.

It makes more sense to look at the sutta in the following way:

An embryo is formed just prior to a being physically taking birth. The creation of this embryo relies on coarse food. Thus, we are not talking about the beginning of bhava, but the transition from bhava to jati (i.e. a being that is about to be born). Further, once a being is born, that being requires more coarse food to maintain the embryo. At this point, we may say that coarse food is consumed passively. However, once the being is out of the womb, coarse food is consumed with intention.

As mentioned above, the definition provided in your sutta for jati allows for an interpretation other than physical birth.

SN 25.1 says about “okkanti” (“okkanta”; past participle):

Someone who has faith and confidence in these principles is called a follower by faith. They’ve arrived at inevitability regarding the right path, they’ve arrived at the level of the good person, and they’ve transcended the level of the bad person.

Yo, bhikkhave, ime dhamme evaṁ saddahati adhimuccati—ayaṁ vuccati saddhānusārī, okkanto sammattaniyāmaṁ, sappurisabhūmiṁ okkanto, vītivatto puthujjanabhūmiṁ;

:surfing_man:t2:

I previously posted MN 93 refers to the ā­bhi­nibbatti of physical heat by using sticks to light a fire.

AN 3.76 refers to the ā­bhi­nibbatti of bhava.

SN 12.2 refers to the ā­bhi­nibbatti of jati.

If a factory is used for the production (ā­bhi­nibbatti) of weapons and a pasture is used for the production (ā­bhi­nibbatti) of sheep, I doubt the weapons & sheep have any equivalence. In other words, it seems possible ā­bhi­nibbatti may have no equivalence to either “heat”, “bhava” or “jati”.

Okkanti is used in many ways in the Pali, as I showed from SN 25.1. A Pali word meaning “womb” does not exist in the definition of “jati” in SN 12.2.

Possibly but I have not read Thanissaro or any post in this topic demonstrate this to my personal satisfaction.

Allow me to ask you a question about SN 12.11. If the four “ahara” (“fuel”; “nutriment”) in SN 12.11 for the maintenance of “beings” (“sattānaṁ”) have their origin in craving, is a Buddha or Arahant (free from craving) “a being” (“satta”) maintained by these four craving produced nutriments? :thinking:

What is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of these four fuels?

Ime, bhikkhave, cattāro āhārā kiṁnidānā kiṁsamudayā kiṁjātikā kiṁpabhavā?

Craving.

Ime cattāro āhārā taṇhānidānā taṇhāsamudayā taṇhājātikā taṇhāpabhavā.

SN 12.11

Thank you for the clarification.

Based on this, we are now at a point where the only definition you have given for jati categorically cannot mean only entity-birth. To review the definition you provided from the suttas:

Yā tesaṁ tesaṁ sattānaṁ tamhi tamhi sattanikāye jāti sañjāti okkanti abhinibbatti khandhānaṁ pātubhāvo āyatanānaṁ paṭilābho.

  • sañjāti - birth; outcome; origin
  • okkanti - arriving
  • abhinibbatti - production
  • pātubhāva - appearance; coming into manifestation

Nothing in this definition restricts the word jati to entity-birth at all. Each word defining jati stands on its own and could easily have a broader meaning. Even sañjāti in its narrower sense is recursive as definition because it contains the root jati.

On the one hand, the use of jati in suttas to describe entity-birth leads people to believe that it must only refer to entity-birth. On the other hand, the definition from the suttas for jati doesn’t restrict jati to entity-birth in any meaningful way. Having given it some thought, I believe it may not be possible to separate entity-birth from identity-birth as the distinction is somewhat arbitrary. For example, what would distinguish the moment that a being is born in a formless realm from the next moment where they develop a different identity? If such a distinction could be made and that distinction was material, one would think that the Buddha would provide that definition in his description of jati.

The only reason to interpret jati as entity-birth comes from an inference made from suttas specifically talking about rebirth over lifetimes and aeons. Many of these having identical stock-standard phrasing due to standardisation, so even the number of suttas using this phrasing may not be sufficient evidence for this narrow definition.

The phrasing in dependent origination cannot be used to infer jati as entity-birth because it does not provide the reader with any definitions. It simply takes for granted that the reader knows what is being referred to.

On the other hand, the available definition for jati does not speak explicitly about entity-birth, leaving ample room for identity-birth.

As for evidence supporting jati as identity-birth, two things come to mind:

  • Firstly, as mentioned above, contact, intention and consciousness are seen as proceeding craving in the aforementioned suttas while in dependent origination they precede craving. This cannot be reconciled unless dependent origination also applies to moments within a lifetime, rather than being restricted across lifetimes.

  • Secondly, dependent origination ceases to make sense when viewed only within a double or three lifetime model. For example, in both these models, craving in the present life must lead to a future life. However, we know that a person who acted out of craving who later in the same life attained awakening does not have a future life. Based on the model, the condition for craving in the present life was fulfilled because the unawakened being acted out of craving. This should result in a future life but of course we know that it doesn’t. Thus, the model is inaccurate. The model only becomes accurate when we allow dependent origination to work in a fractal fashion where individual moments gain importance. Craving can cease in one moment, resulting in no identity-birth in the next moment. This cuts off all the dependent origination cycles at the micro-level (level of the moment), which also means that it unravels at the macro-level (level of multiple lifetimes).

One cannot constrain dependent origination to a two or three lifetime model and also insist that it accommodate the presence and subsequent absence of craving within a single lifetime. This inconsistency is best resolved by using a fractal model for dependent origination where jati takes on a the broader meaning of identity-birth.

This is interesting; there are two ways this may be looked at:

  1. Just because the fuels have their inception in craving does not necessarily mean that they need to be sustained by craving. For example, heat and pressure give rise to a diamond. However, the diamond is not dependent on heat and pressure for its continued existence. Similarly, whatever fuel sustains an Arahant would originate from the prior craving they produced and the fuel continues to exist even thought craving is absent. Once the Arahant uses up all the fuel though, he or she will pass away.

  2. Interestingly, the sutta doesn’t specify that the craving has to be produced by the same being. So it may be that in certain circumstances, the food originates from craving produced by other beings. For example, the coarse food donated to monks is purchased and prepared by lay people; thus that coarse food has its origin in the craving of lay people and not the monks, even though it is ultimately consumed by the monks.

I speculate that point (2) may be one of the reasons why a monk must have their food donated to them. Perhaps, even absent the vinaya rule, an Arahant would not engage in the practice of cultivating coarse food for themselves; because coarse food originates from craving and they have no craving of their own to motivate the cultivation of coarse food.