Need clarification regarding 'Anagami trap' for the arising of future Buddhas in which some anagami/anagamis and certain student/students may fall

Hello everyone…I really need to know perspective of you people on the post I have come across.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.facebook.com/buddhistas/posts/the-anagami-trapthere-is-a-great-ignorance-about-the-dynamics-of-enlightenment-t/1541679625891091/&ved=2ahUKEwjIn-7N6p6HAxXTTGwGHThnA7gQFnoECD0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2636oDlHF0hm4sd5xxeY8i

In above post that person is implying that, there is a trap called ‘anagami trap’ in the pathway of nibbana where some pseudorandom anagamis fall…who are headed for the akkanishta realm which is actually not good thing because that stream abducts them from nibbana and this happens because of any particular student of anagami who wants to walk the path of Bodhisattva towards buddhahood. He says this curious mechanism is necessary for arising of future Buddhas.

He implies that, buddha is not someone who is saviour of everybody out of just compassion, he is just obliged to free/liberate the beings who raised him to buddhahood out of obligation, as repayment of debt, his primary work is with such anagami Brahma/s who is/are guiding him on the path to buddhahood and gods and tangentially with humans because most of the humans are attached to dhamma of last buddha which got corrupted and now most of foolish human beings are attached to it because of their compulsion to be born in hell.

He says In the case of gotama buddha, Brahma sahampati was the one who asked/requested buddha to teach, without his intervention buddha wouldn’t have taught and even would have abandoned his sangha. So brahma sahampati couldn’t attain nibbana because he had obligation towards the siddhattha Gautama. Once buddha decided to teach, Brahma sahampati was freed from obligation towards gotama. Which obligation we may ask…its following - If anybody has given even a small amount of alms to buddha or anyone from his sangha, buddha/sangha becomes obliged to help in the liberation of that person…or in other words by hook or by crook that person eventually attains nibbana because of that deed.

So that was the crux of that post for those who may not open the link…but I request you to go through that post, atleast for the initial part of that post.

Now my addition here is that (IMO)(Plz correct me if possible), in the case of Ananda, he couldn’t become arhat because of his attachment to buddha, so even if buddha gave him hints that he could increase his lifespan for the remaining Kappa(or ayukappa doesn’t matter, as duration is not point in my question), if Ananda requested him he had to prolong his parinibbana because of his obligation towards ananda, in case ananda desired that buddha should stay longer to help remaining people…but we read that ananda didn’t get the hint because of mara and he failed to request buddha to stay longer. My thinking is that ananda felt it’s not appropriate to cause buddha further pain as he has already done everything for people.
So because ananda renounced his attachment towards buddha and because of that, buddha could attain nibbana and even venerable ananda could attain arahatship. I am saying this because I feel this is kind of same as brahma sahampati waiting in akkanishta out of obligation towards Gautama till his liberation. Maybe that’s why some mahayanist say that, Buddha’s attain enlightenment in akkanishta and then come to human realm to repay the debt of those who raised him, out of loving obligation.

My question to you sirs is that, what do you think is he right or wrong? Or should I just ignore that thing. What is truth according to EBT…plz help me out here. I don’t want to discuss, I just want answer and guidance and if possible plz mention any related suttas. I want to learn and clear my pathway towards stream entry that’s why I am eager to just learn. I am seeking answers and clarifications.

Thank you. Hope I conveyed my question well. :pray::pray::pray:

well, note that’s quite an absurdity because at that point the person is an ariya with a very high progress, and therefore with nibbana experience and the destiny to arhanthood already fixed without any backward. This is what the sources shows. At that point the course until complete Enlightenment is already fixed.

Just it sounds like another bizarre stuff in Internet to get some profit using the Buddha teaching. There are a lof of such things to monetize videos, self-produced books and etcetera.

It is advisable selecting reliable sources to learn Dhamma. Note that when selecting the reliable sources anyway the complexity and doubts will arise. So we can imagine the mess if somebody add all that internet bizarre stuff designed to get money, the youtube videos to get clicks… It can be really crazy.

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I don’t see how this comes out from the facebook post you posted. By definition, Buddhas cannot be reborn.

Why are you afraid of possibly being one of those non-returners who gets to invite a fully enlightened Buddha to come and teach? The usage of the word trap indicates some nonsense fear of a sublime, beautiful, wonderful state. Of course, some people may not aim for it, which is ok, as even a little bit of feces is smelly, so too is a little bit of existence. But then as psychology goes, the more you’re afraid of something, the more likely your reactions makes it come true.

Like a person who fear heights (actually falling), have the legs shake when walking on a rope bridge is more likely that that fear causes the falling to happen.

Anyway, I don’t see any evidences from the sutta about obligations.

I think it’s a wonderful opportunity to ask a fully enlightened Buddha to teach. But I also don’t think it’s on purpose to wait until then. The lifespan of pure abode beings are many universe cycles long, if a Buddha happens to appear then, it’s still considered rare and wonderful to take the opportunity to request for teaching.

Given the great chronicles of Buddha stated that there’s some interval of Buddhas which are 1 uncountable eon apart, it vastly exceeds the lifespan of the pure abode beings. I don’t think that it’s possible for non-returners to still occupy that realm after the last Buddha was so long ago. They all would already become arahants.

Also, just so we are clear, you still remember that the destiny of all who attain to stream winner onwards is arahanthood right?

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Thank you for responding kindly venerable! :pray::smiley:

Ok sir thanks for pointing this out!

Definitely sir I remember that and accept completely because offcourse suttas say that!

My belief is that stream-entry happens only when one faces some traumatic/intense/tragic event/events in his life which causes one’s world to be upside down…an event which forces our attachment to break and shatter our world. Because we see many people in suttas who attained stream entry after surviving through some intense tragic event, such as chanda, uppalavana theri, kisa gotami. Am I right here venerable?

Also if someone became stream-enterer without such event then maybe he has gone through that in his past life…plz clarify sir!

No need for trauma. Positive trauma of Jhānas perhaps. Most important is just put in the causes of fulfilling the noble 8fold path, when the results happen, let them happen on their own.

Like going on a hill to watch sunset. Not every time one can see sunset, because of clouds etc, but keep going to the hill, one day, one is bound to see it.

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First time seeing this idea.
I think it’s absurd.

From the perspective of EBT, or where one have arahantship as a goal. Becoming anagami is already a winning ticket.
Even if what he say is true and one have to wait for a Buddha to appear… What’s the problem. It’s not like anagami is waiting in shabby place. The Pure Abodes are heavens.

From the perspective of Mahayana, a Bodhisattva can not be reborn in Pure Abodes. Because a Bodhisattva can not become anagami. They must wander around in samsara accumulating parami, not going for one stop to Nibbana.
Mahayana texts warn of the danger of “falling” to sravaka path. If one resolution and bodhicitta not strong enough, one can abandon the Bodhisattva path and attain the sotapanna, sakadagami, anagami, and arahant.
Once a Bodhisattva fell to Sravaka path, there is no coming back. He/she must go all the way to nibbana in that path.

From the perspective of Tantra, akanittha/ akanishta in which high level Bodhisattva and Buddha reside, is different from the normal mundane akanittha.
They have VIP area.
So do not confuse normal anagami with the Bodhisattva in akanittha.

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The fear of having a big responsibility and a difficult life to help others can be something holding many back from Awakening. You might think that life will get easier when you Awaken, however, that will be when you start to use your abilities to help and save others.

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Thank you all for taking your valuable time to give response!

Your words are very encouraging venerable sir. So venerable plz answer one question for me…why didn’t lord buddha use his iddhibala to bring back the life of kisa gotami’s dead child? I know if he had done that, kisa gotami maybe couldn’t have attained stream-entry! As she realised the impermanence of samsara at that moment. I feel Buddha’s way of doing things is perfect/best…so does that mean it’s not the capability but its our choice which should accord with dhamma to become true follower of Buddha dhamma and sangha right sir? In other words if one wants to follow dhamma, one should not do something even if it will give somebody temporary happiness of samsara just because one can do that thing right sir?

Yes sir…I suppose even attaining stream-entry is a winning ticket!

Umm yea…I feel once I or anyone becomes sotapanna life will become easier…right?

Saving others and earning punna kamma which will take one to higher realms instead of kusala kamma which will help in attaining nibbana…is this what you implying sir?

You think this is possible at all?

Anyway, I heard an interesting story last night, I will link here after making a post on it.

Sir I edited my question if you can plz recheck it would be great blessing for me!

IMO sir, such thing might be possible for buddha but he gave way to highest happiness that is ‘nibbana’ to all his followers which is more valuable than any samsarik/wordly/impermanent happiness. That’s what I am thinking right now…but I don’t have confidence that I am right.

That will be very good thing for me sir plzz do post that story…I’ll be waiting for that!:pray: Thank you so much!

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I would imagine that though the desires cease more, a person has more responsibilities, and this may give them a higher threshold in life.

Kamma is not what helps attain Nibbana as far as I know. I think it’s more of ceasing Kamma and minimizing material reactions is what the Path to Nibbana is.

And bringing people to this other shore is not easy work. Imagine the work of an Arhat or a Buddha, do you think it is easy?

The non-easyness of it is both part of the reward and challenge of it, I think…

Wow it was a very long read sir. I read that post completely. I am glad to read that.

So venerable sir @NgXinZhao Venerable Phra ajaan Keng actually taught Patricia (cancer patient) the meditation because of which she was able to attain sadgati(good rebirth destination) …that’s what the post is saying. So sir can you tell me what kind of meditation was taught by ajaan Keng to that dying lady because of which she attained good future destination?

Also I suppose healing her terminal cancer and prolonging her human (irrespective of it being possible or not) would actually been wrong…and would have blocked her progress in good future destination… Am I right here sir?

Offcourse I don’t think it is easy sir…but I suppose after parinibbana it can be said that everything that should be done has been said to be done, isn’t it? Or are you implying that buddha/arhat keeps working to bring other beings to nibbana? Can you explain plz…

There’s a value to human life. Kindness to others, helping them on the Path, accumulating merit, and setting an important example for others are all examples of why it’s good to heal and prolong human life. Remember how valuable and rare a human birth is, my friend. Namaste.

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Regardless of whether it’s one life or many, there is still work to be done. Take the example of Buddha or Sariputta.

I suppose it’s because this human birth can be conducive to progress towards nibbana…atleast that what I think…

I don’t know if it’s true or not but it surely sounds very frightening and scary to me :pleading_face:. Anyways thank you for your clarification sir @Dharma

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My story is not related to the link. And my story is quite short. I didn’t read the link. Just to show you who Ajahn Keng is.

The purpose of the Path is to help you overcome the most dangerous type of fear. When you get to where you are going, you will have all that you need. :pray:

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Oh ok sir…sorry my bad. So i guess marananussati, asubha meditation, mindfulness on 32 impure parts of body such are the prescribed treatments to deal with such situations.

Yes I read your short story…I guess it meant that we should be ultimately aware of our greed, I’ll-will and ignorance…that’s lesson I took from that…very interesting read sir…thank you.:pray: